China v India
It’s like Mike Tyson at his peak versus Keshto Mukherjee. That’s more or less the gist of Shankar Acharya’s comment piece here. Check it out, especially, the table.
Anything you’d like to add or argue with?
September 27, 2005
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In the long term, I think India will have it all over China – for a number of reasons. I detail the case against China here, and the case for India here. Enjoy.
On the website of the linked article above, I notice there’s another link to an article titled “The Age of Chinese MNCs is Here”. Anyone who knows anything about how the mainland Chinese do business will realise how ridiculous that statement is.
Comment by James Waterton — September 27, 2005 @ 11:13 am
Inroads in exports, foriegn direct investment and tourism will give us a bright future
If India can somehow manage to make inroads in the Chinese export market along with attracting the phenomenal foriegn direct investment that the Chinese enjoy, then we have hope.(which poured in at a rate more than 10 times higher than into India….why won’t there growth be greater)
Another area is tourism … some 33 million arrivals (exclusive of Hong Kong), compared to less than 3 million into India.
Comment by Mani Pulimood — September 27, 2005 @ 4:59 pm
I have lots of friends from China and I discuss these issues all the time. My sense is that chinese tend to sweep lots of things under the carpet (e.g., discontent of rural people who have been largely left out of the economic development). If and when China opens up the anger of the rural folks will be out in full force and this may create some serious problems.
Comment by sv — September 27, 2005 @ 10:56 pm
The table presents some sobering statistics.
IMO, the most striking stat is the female adult literacy rate — 87% in China versus 45% in India. And this is where India’s government has failed most. As I’ve said earlier, the government’s subsidies of higher education are a mistake.
http://indianeconomy.org/2005/09/16/from-%e2%80%9cnehru-growth%e2%80%9d-to-productivity-surge/#comment-259
That having been said, I think China has some serious problems as well, which aren’t reflected in the table — China’s banking system’s non-performing loans are many multiples of India’s.
Comment by Prashant Kothari — September 28, 2005 @ 4:25 am
And China’s enormous State Owned Industrial sector is largely bankrupt. China’s banks have so many bad loans because the central government keeps forcing them to loan money to these companies that will never repay.
China’s current boom is being fuelled by the massively stimulating effect of US$60 billion+ pa of FDI. There is a lot of irrational exuberance regarding China – it’s a classic bubble. And it will burst some time soon.
Comment by James Waterton — September 28, 2005 @ 5:26 am
I am not so sure about the literacy figure – seems a little too high. A friend (from China) told me that primary education is not free, and it is quite common for people to not attend school.
Comment by Karthik — September 28, 2005 @ 5:44 am
I once shared a cubicle in the office with a Chineese guy. He told me the following things over a period of time…
1. You simple cannot log onto a site like bbc.co.uk, because the state controls information.
2. He was not aware of a profession called “lawyer” till he came to the US – because there is no such concept as a court room
3. He is an atheist. But his mother is a member of Fauln Gong(am I spelling it right?) and she was arrested once – for no reason.
4. You cannot be blogging like this in China.
5. You do not get to watch all Hollywood flicks. The state heavily censors and only movies which are not political are allowed in.
I think I would trade a bit of wealth to have the above, any day.
Comment by Nilu — September 28, 2005 @ 10:29 am
In that case can comparisons be drawn with Russia under Stalin where rapid industrialization was promoted at an exhorbitant cost to human lives??
Comment by Mani Pulimood — September 28, 2005 @ 12:53 pm
The article is bloody well one-sided, and could possibly be culled from a few minutes spent googling. That someone even paid to have it done is idiotic. And not to mention rediff hosted it.
All it does is look at the past 20 years and paint a dismal picture for the next 20 years.
That the author and says we wont or cant do it the next 20 years is also the Chief economic advisor to the Government of India is a bloody shame.
Comment by Prasanna — September 29, 2005 @ 9:33 am
The article is bloody well one-sided, and could possibly be culled from a few minutes spent googling. That someone even paid to have it done is idiotic. And not to mention rediff hosted it.
All it does is look at the past 20 years and paint a dismal picture for the next 20 years.
That the author says we wont or cant set a better pace economically the next 20 years while being the Chief Economic Advisor to the Government of India is a bloody shame.
Comment by Prasanna — September 29, 2005 @ 9:37 am
India and China are similar in one respect only which is population.
Culturaly they are very different and therefore indians should not BLINDLY FOLLOW china’s economic-political model.
China is a military state. Forget Friedmans nonsense. Most chinese are happy with this arrangement. Yes this is a shocker to some one who has lived in India and America. I am allways surprised whenever I talk with chinese students in US. They allways repeat the party line from back home on every issue and dont offer much else.
Indians have more of an independent streak. Talk about any issue and you will hear different views.
So the forms of political,economical and social structures both countries will have should be different.
While china’s economic growth can be admired for what it is. India needs to find its own path for growth.
But a lot of indians have a bizzare attraction towards the chinese model.
And while some people like to raise issues about the lack of personal freedom in china including free press eg
India does not have all these freedom either. eg
India banned Rushdie’s Satanic Verses. VS Naipauls early books on India were banned in India(I dont know current status) Movies are censored in india(Its not a voluntary rating system like that in US)
If india was to give up what ever little freedom indians have inorder to adopt a chinese influenced model, it will mostlikely collapse.
What india needs is more decentralization and more privatization and things will take off. There is no need to create state run or state aided companies. It does not need to create a 3rd tier networking manufacturer like Huaweie which is a messy operation in bed with chinese military and engaged in IP theft rather than technology development. see links http://gigaom.com/2005/08/19/huawei-backlash/
http://infoworld.com/article/03/06/10/HNciscorule_1.html
Comment by Guru Gulab Khatri — September 30, 2005 @ 9:21 am
apologies for the double post. thought it hadn’t gone through!
Comment by Prasanna — September 30, 2005 @ 9:58 am
The gulf in economic growth (even if it is bounded to select geographies and sub-groups) is not appreciated well enough by most of our commentators, policy-makers and administrators. To that end, the article does an excellent job in holding up the mirror. However, the article does not (as some previous comments above point out too) tip its hat to the benefits of pluraism that India has. I have written earlier about these topics at my blog, Saara Aakash – on disparities in financial system’s performance and on not being subjected to the absurd brutalities of the communist regime.
Comment by Nikhil — October 5, 2005 @ 12:25 am
What a stupid analogy comparing India and China. China has already lost the race. India has kept its people free and they do not have to behave like mutants or toe the party line. We are a much older and civilised people with everyone able to talk freely. Come on, think back to Tianammen Square the murders of Chinese liberals by the State … forget about the economy …. India will survive anything.
Comment by salim — November 8, 2005 @ 8:45 am
the head start that china enjoyed in opening its doors to global economy in 1978 , is one of the causes why the indian counterpart is lagging behind , but that certainly doesnt mean the has lost the way , because we compare the two economies we find that despite the high growth rate achieved by china , the indian counterpart has made rapid strides to catchup with the dragon ,
Comment by abhimanyu rai — November 10, 2005 @ 11:11 am
diffrent between india and china
~~~china bigger than india 3 time that mean the cost build a factory more cheap when the india population same as china now than the india will lack of land + somemore reserve for forest military purpose and road !the most biger problem for india !!
~~~india IT techonology is sure sure sure win china but in technology in space or nucklear bom (1970 something china fist test then 2 year later they tested for hidrogen nucklear bom) or the nucklear summarine(1980 the first china nucklear summarine is tested) is far far behind !!!
Comment by dk — January 8, 2006 @ 9:20 am
Reply to Nilu
Every country has its own problems, you cannot critical on some specific points simply based on one opinion. some people may use this means to condemn chinese government. For example, you don’t familar with the chinese situation on the FalunGong,it is a kind of evil heresy, and will mislead people to kill other people or their family and themsevles, this is turely happened within many people who join FalunGong. and that is why the police arrest that saphead’s mother, things happened must be reasons!!!
Comment by chinese — January 13, 2006 @ 7:54 am
http://neweconomist.blogs.com/new_economist/2005/10/china_vs_india_.html
look this chart !
don not predict without prove!!
from the figure about all the figure show tat india lose to china !! more abviously in education ,facility
if u think the china no poured lot money in to high tech research u are wrong !! they create lot of high tech thing like space shuttle ,their own gprs system and 3 satelite, recently 2 new jet fighter born jf and j10 ,they also invent the cpu,godson II it speed about pentium 3 the research still continued .and the biotechnology!!the 3g system china invented lately approved by goverment td-cdma.and the brand new nueklear sumarine !they also research in high tech sensor to use in space ship!
moreover china is 3 time larger than india in aspect of land!and china population is 30% more than india! with this figure india more density compare with china !!!this is not good thing !!if we cut out the land for road ,house,shop,military purpose,forest then india will suffer from insufficient space for continue grow!!
IMO, the most striking stat is the female adult literacy rate — 87% in China versus 45% in India. And this is where India’s government has failed most. As I’ve said earlier, the government’s subsidies of higher education are a mistake.
Another area is tourism … some 33 million arrivals (exclusive of Hong Kong), compared to less than 3 million into India.
Comment by dk — January 24, 2006 @ 5:06 pm
i think instead of pointing china for its lack of dimocracy, press freedom…etc..we should see positive aspects of the china like economy growth, administration etc….and also we should look how we can blend our economic model with the chinese economic model this will help india achieve success more quickly.
Comment by barani — October 7, 2006 @ 12:25 pm
As you may notice most of our previous colonies are christian, much more christian than the west!!! The reason is simple, we imposed the religion as the master so that we can control the slaves’ mind. We manipulated them so that they really believe in a belief system. Of course we are not fooled by our own trick!!!
I have been to China. It does has its own problems. However, much of the truth about China that you guys believe in are manipulated truh. The reason is simple, we (the western ruling elite ) would like the rest of the world to believe in it. The reason? To legitimize our system and power over you!! And of course the Chinese government has their own propogandy to control its own people. But are we really different in that sense? Please do not feed me any words that a US president would say before we rage a war against some country.
BTW, our propoganda may not be working very well in the west, but at least it is doing its magic in India…
Comment by slacker — November 14, 2006 @ 10:57 am
india cannot overtake China, ever. Why?
Japan, Korea, Singapore, China have transformed less then a decade while india lags behind as always.
india is plaged by multi-religious, multi-cultural nonsense and there is no unity or sense of social justice among your people, just dog eat dog. China is unified and people work hard for the country and people. We get things done, quickly.
We took Tibet without a fight, we taught you a lesson in humility in the 1962 war and surely we will humiliate you again as we come as rich tourists and you worship us as Gods. :)
Comment by Wuhan — December 22, 2006 @ 5:02 pm
I was from Taiwan and have been in the US for 30 years. I have many classmates from India in graduate school. To be honest, most of the comments by the Indian readers on China or India are deadly wrong. It reflects the fact and the reason that India was easily colonized by England for more than a hundred years. India has the so-called “superior” democracy system after independence from England for 50 years. What this “superior” system has done to India in the last 50 years? What would you expect for next 50 years? I have three Indian neighbors here living in the 2 million US dollar houses. I have many more Chinese neighbors here living in 2 to 3 million us dollar houses. India may have some success in IT area, it cannot compare to Taiwan in high technology area, not to mention the Chinese military area.
Comment by Richard — January 10, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
According to my point of view the difference between these countries came from the system ” Democratic and Communism”.
Let’s compare 50 years before while India got freedom, around 80% of people were illiterate and more than 50 % of peoples are below poverty line. In this situation choosing a country to be fully democratic is totally wrong. Because those peoples cant decide right thing for the country. As people failed to select good leaders and leaders failed to take good decisions. Thus the systems of India didn’t do so good like china in the past years.
But more importantly we should notice the present situations where in India peoples now getting understand the importance to the country. No India started its speed with a stable and rigid base. So I believe India will perform better soon with keeping the importance of “democracy”.
Comment by Vijay — January 19, 2007 @ 5:25 am
India surely overtakes china; if you not believe go to the following fact shown in below link
http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/futureinvest/2542
Not as Indian, Not as Chinese, we all human beings should be happy if a democratic country leads to win. Democracy only gives respect to human rights….
Comment by Suresh — January 20, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
Hehe, the so-called democray and human rights have been picked up by Satan to fool you guys!
Comment by lol — July 3, 2007 @ 11:50 am
Chinese people are the most industrious people on the earth. They have greatest tradition and culture. However, the leader in China, Chinese Communist Party (CCP) ruin the ethics basis of Chinese people, which making the Chinese people all look forward to Money. Therefore, a lot of problems are created. As time goes by, these problems goes more and more critical. By the way, CCP is not from China, it’s from western world. It has a strong system to control the thinking of Chinese people and it use all kinds of media to brainwash the Chinese people, Falun Gong is a good example. If you touch the people practicing Falun Gong, you will find they are a group of very kind people, and if you go through their books, you can find they are just teaching people to be benevolent. I am really surprised that such a good belief was stigmatized as evil religion by CCP through a lot of lies. What puzzles me is that ordinary Chinese people can be so easily duped. In fact many facts about these lies can be easily found on the Internet, it looks like Chinese people is not willing to know the truth. Maybe that’s also caused by the lack of morality under the reign of CCP
Comment by Tonnadolo — August 29, 2007 @ 8:12 am
China can though take over in military power but it can’t take over india in economic term in long run. We have a most basic kind of economy with less of the FDI whereas china is running only on FDI’s and other investments, if they get stopped in the near future china would have no option but to suicide from starvation because they have made there needs so high that their domestic market alone can’t fulfill their needs they would have to turned upto other countries like Korea and Singapore to fulfill them.
Comment by Jatin Singh Negi — June 24, 2009 @ 2:50 pm
I am from China. I worked 5 years in China, then 5 years in India, in between 3 years in US.So I believe I could compare India and China a little bit.
Overall, I don’t think India is at the same level with China at all. India is far behind, maybe 20 years, maybe more. But interesting thing is, anywhere you will find, there is not a single India people will acknowledge that, on internet, on media(I scan India major newspaper everyday), on any forum, they like to debate, like to point out India is democratic and china has no freedom and simply win on mouth. Indian people, through my observation, don’t know how to introspect themsevles, they do not have a correct ego and simply live in fantasy. I never see a single Indian rationally analyse why India is so dirty(some country is more poor, but much cleaner), why there are so many homeless people, they simply yell “great India” and sleep. I am wondering if those slumdogs can use internet, what will they say.
I am living probably the best place in Delhi, but still we have to rely on generator everyday for some time. Last two days it rained, you can not walk, no drainage system! I worked on the best CBD area, but not more than 100 meters away, there are 30+ slum “house”—built by shabby plastic canvas and stick not taller than 1.5 meters, inside living a family! more than 6 people staying on a place less than 5 square meters. 10 meters away, a man was releiving nature. I didn’t find this place before, as nobody mentioned it, seems no one cares.
This is not alone, as I travel around India, I found this everywhere. I really suggest India elite class, if you really care about your country, and has a sense of responsibility, please find a way to eliminate all this disgusting things, and stop talking about “India shining”, and better stop comparing with China.
India people like to link or compare with China, but in china, nobody care about India, or feel ashamed to compare with India, frankly speaking.
Comment by Lin — September 12, 2009 @ 6:47 am
Well said Lin,
I agree.. Its the time for we indians to focus on our internal strength and try to eliminate the limitations or weaknesss.. I guess democracy is the advantage to India but at the same time it is the constraint on the growth. India cannot be matured democracy ( even if our great congress and people claims it) like USA, France or UK unless we have substantial middle class population compared to our total population …
My opinion is there no point in struggling to claim we are over above.. I will be happy if we remain Third in the order as China, US & india or US,China & india or even 5th or 10 th place as long as average indian eats the fruits of properity.
Comment by Amogh — September 24, 2009 @ 11:29 pm
People around the world accept concept of four or five ancient civilizations – China, Ancient India, Ancient Egypt, Ancient Babylon with or without Ancient Greek. This makes India stand together with China, for which I respect and am curious about India (culture). But to be frank, personally and with practical point of view, I don’t accept this concept. More reasonably there is only one greatest civilization – China, and there are four ancient civilizations (as described above). Reason: Only Chinese culture survives the whole changing history and remains young and vivid, and only China has been remaining an integral and insurmountably empire/country geographically and culturally. China has been invaded many times, and invaders were mostly assimilated and absorbed into or kicked out.
So if you Indian people are really serious and want to know what current China is, please use your life (if you are
young enough) to learn some Chinese history. Power and strength of China is mostly built on its history besides things you are like to compare like economy, population, military forces etc.
If I understand correctly, in the greatest part of Indian history, India concept as an integral country is an exception – maybe only in short time of Maurya Empire when Ashoka the Great is the king, and Mughal Empire (I am not sure if Indian people will take this as a glory or as a shame). Kushan Empire and Gupta Empire did not govern the whole India. In the greatest part of Indian history, India is a warring state consisting of dozens or hundreds of small quasi-kingdoms.
Sorry I dont mean to lecture about Indian history, since I know only a little more than zero about India history and culture. Even though I am interested in Vedic culture, and I even want to learn some Sanskrit, and I play Yoga for many years (not very serious, just a casual player).
What I want to say is, the concept of UNITY is ingrained in Chinese people, and I doubt it’s the case in India – along the history and in its current status. The phenomenon that a long outdated and (please dont be offended and please forgive my candidness) evil system like the caste system still survives and may exert great influence in this modern era is really astounding.
The worse situation is India accepts the western mongered “Democracy” by British patron without any clue what it really is.
I have no interest in arguing if this so called Democracy is right or wrong. But I think while this democracy snake and the caste system zombie live in Indian house, no fancy thing can be predicted. If you Indian people are humourous enough, you may find Demo-crazy is a better form in your circumstance.
Due to the longlasting de-facto partitioned status of India history, Indian government becomes one of the greatest multilingual (if not the only one) entity in this small globe. Academically this is interesting, amazing and fascinating. Nonacademically, is it a disaster? The answer lies in you, for I have no dimmest idea. (Un)Gracefully you have an existing (worst/)better choice – English, with this I know many Indian people are confident and charmed, and as many Western analysts analyzed, this English advantage is one (or even the only one?) of the most competitives in comparison to China in globalization game. Like it or not, it’s highly possible that some day India will become a western country – speaking English, and spitting democracy India. To achieve this, Indian government has to do something to enhance the education of English, to let Indian people be able to talk to, besides Western people, Indian people themselves.
I know many Indian people, esp. youth, have hysterical hatred to China as a country and to Chinese as the people. It’s mostly owing to 1962 border war. If dreams can come true, I can grant that China has been neutralized (this word is what Indian people like to use. I am glad for this since neutralize looks a little more beautiful than annihilate) million times. Most Chinese people dont remember this. It’s more like a military drill than a real war. Personally I understand the emotion and passion and ecstasy of Indian youth, since many Chinese youth also bluff about killing Japanese. When putting yourself in someone else’s shoes, full understanding is easily achieved. Youth can be easily forgiven since they are young and know only few things and can easily be triggered by something, anything, and manipulated by some Big Sisters. But if not only youth act like this, things are very different.
Some of my fellow Chinese said that nobody in China cares about and compares to India. That’s not fully true. The latter part is true, while the former part is not. Most Chinese dont hate or abhor India and Indian people, and most respect Indian (ancient) culture. Most are curious about India. I wont say Chinese love India and Indian people, that is too hypocritical.
As a Chinese, my opinions and comments are fully biased. I met and know many Indians, and most of them are elite Indians. It’s too easy to say Indian people are kind people. This is easily right, but in fact meaningless. In personal contact, most people in the history and in the current world are kind people, including Nazi controlled German people who put Europe soaked in blood, and American people and Spanish who put the North America and South America soaked in American Indian blood, and Japanese people who put China soaked in blood.
History is a colorful pie chart, with half blood and half tears and a very small slice of other thinks like glory and happiness. We need to learn the history, remember the history, respect the history, and sometimes forget the history. Otherwise, the next revision or release of the history pie chart will highly possibly have the same shape of those old archived ones.
Sure this is what the whole world should know and should do, not only China and India.But since this thread is talking about China and India, let’s elaborate. I’ll omit China part and put India part only.
India and Indian people should
1 Learn Indian history to get the picture of what are legacy values and virtues, and what’s legacy burden
2 Respect your own culture and traditions while not becoming cocky and superfacially self-indulgent
3 Review and reform your social system and patron-sold political system
4 Try to make current India equally or more respectable than ancient India, esp. culturally
5 Let Indian people be willing to and be able to talk to Indian people before talking to outer world
At least if I understand correctly, hodgepodge is not the same thing as melting pot.
6 Respect China like the whole world do. China deserves respect from anyone in this world, including Indian people
7 Respect your neighbours, no matter they are friends or enemies
8 Remember India is a developing country, and realize India is a normal country
My comments could be full of clerical errors, biased and wrongly ordered opinions. For these I apologize.
I am glad at least and at last I can find a place to talk about India where people can talk like real human beings in lieu of breathing creatures living in deep and dark caves.
May Shiva, Brama and VIshnu bless India!
Comment by some Chinese — September 26, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
@ some Chinese: I appreciate you for taking pain to write such a big *biased* comment. You look like a strong jingoist.
First I would like you congratulate you as a neighbor for your achievement and realize that Indians do realize the fact and respect you for your history. But you don’t seem to be returning back. Though it would be wrong on my part if I generalize that it is the attitude of everyone there.
Some of your concepts sound very funny (for eg. “there is only one greatest civilization – China, and there are four ancient civilizations”) and show your over enthusiasm to show off to the world with out knowing the greatness of others.
I pity you for not being able to understand the value of something called *freedom* and *democracy* . Also learning something Good from West is not wrong.
Lack of diversity might be one of the reasons for your closed attitude. Realize that there are many good things you can learn from the outside world.
My Chinese friend, Realize that :
-> We respect you and expect you to do the same
-> There are many things that India did better than China & vice-versa
-> Learn to appreciate good things of others like democracy etc.
-> Finally, don’t just write a comment for expressing your *biased* views just because this site is not censored in your country :)
Comment by Sameer — September 29, 2009 @ 7:44 am
China and India: A Comparison or Resemblance?
What China has achieved, India should, and would have achieved in the last 50 years.(Note, that China was liberated in 1949 and started getting organized after the Great Leap and the Cultural Revolution). For a fair analysis of comparison or resemblance, let us start from the just concluded The Olympic Games 2008, for example, which was, and perhaps rightly, coveted to China by 2008, on the ground that, a country gets an opportunity to host Olympic Games only, and if only it is infrastructurally developed, economically balanced and financially stable. Examples are Tokyo in the 1960’s, Seoul Olympic in 1988 and Beijing in 2008 respectively. In that sense, so to say, a country after being a host to such an event usually develops fully within another conceding 20 years. Japan was fully developed by mid 1980’s, Korea by 2006 and China, likely by 2028, when it would surpass the GDP of USA at current value $11.5-13.5 trillion, and that too, if only, China expands by an average of 9%-10% every year for another 20 years (which means adding 350 billion every year to her $3.5 trillion economy). Note that India is valued around $1.1 trillion and South Korea at $998 billion), and Thailand at $640 billion.
Well, for the Indian side story, taking the same cue, India would probably host the Olympics by 2028, and by 2048-2050, India would be a fully developed country. Well let’s hope so.
This is just one of a single parameter to judge a country’s global influence. But there are a host of other factors, like Cultural factors, regional traditional, Human resource factors, macroeconomic factors, political, military, investment, capital utilization, Productivity growth factors, Industrial, technological and other allied ones.
Till now, India has been and is doing best in Software outsourcing exports, but sooner, China may take over the Champs, only if India could spread her tentacles far and wide. China has been building strategic partnerships with far-and-wide countries in Africa and Latin America, “BY TAPPING RESOUIRCES AND FORGING ALLIANCES”- a factor that India should look into. In terms of Human development Index, China has done a great job by bringing down her poverty level to less than 15%(approx.), while, % of people living BPL in India arbitrarily around 25%-50% respectively.
China is the only pan Asian country (ex-Japan) and Moscow that has successfully built the first underground metro in Beijing (1974).
On the Issue of Nobel Prize, 6 Indian nationals are coveted with the prestigious award. It doesn’t mean that the Chinese people are dumb, but in fact equally intelligent in Science and Technology. Because of the Communist regime, there has been certain disparity and biases against China by the Nobel Committee. Nobel prizes, particularly in Science and Tech, are often considered as yardsticks of development index, or more so, in ranking individual Institute/university or departments, as along with that it brings National Prestige.
China is far better than India by bodily vigor as proved from the Olympic Games medal tally (compare the two countries). It’s such a ‘Shame’ that the art of healing and Buddhism, although originated from India, adopted and loved throughout the East Asia, India still lags miserably on this context behind China, Japan and Korea in Physical fitness and in conventional sports, the reason these countries work-up so fast. That doesn’t mean India is timid, however.
One thing that China stills lags behind India, is in democracy and freedom of press and expression. Well, China, through strategic international dialogues, is gaining on this frontier too, and India should pay heed to that.
China well rank equally with India in colonization aspect, perhaps a little better on this facet (a spurt of China towns around the world in the past decades). Most of the Pan-Pacific and East Asian countries are very strongly influenced by China, and hence their spread of colonization (Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, et cetera). Well, to ascertain historically, India was a better colonizer than China in pr-historic and ancient times.
And let’s not forget to praise the Westerners, particularly the American and Europeans for one aspect, although they are materially motivated and money chasers, the Americans contribute more to Research and Human Welfare as a ratio and percentage of their total corporate earnings, when compared to India. China has been vigorously experimenting with this aspect, and no sooner, they would follow the Japanese model. (Note, Japan invests more than any other country (ex US) in Human Development Index, Education, Scientific and Social Science Research and Healthcare).
Sadly, Indian businessmen have only learned to earn money by hit or cheat, and save most of it without contributing to social sector, building research department, Fellow Chairs, sponsoring Full University Grants or alike. Chinese corporatism on this aspect, although less better off, their government has portended such initiatives in recent times. However, it’s the Indian government that has done or has been doing the most on this aspect vis-à-vis corporate sector. On the FDI scenario, China got nearly a $1 trillion as FDI in last three decades, making much higher inroads than India.
China boasts some of the best Technical Schools in the world as CIT’s. As also, China envisaged building and they have succeeded in building one of the finest centers for Higher Learning, the prestigious Tsinghua University modeled after Harvard. Not even one Indian University departments come in top 50 among the world, where China has 3-4 world class universities among top 50, and 3 Hong Kong Universities among top 100 (see the American non-biased SSRN University rankings).
The last thing about China that highly differentiates them is their home bias and inter-racial attitude toward other races. This is felt by Indian who usually visits China, and if he or she is particularly from the Southern states, with certain linguistic peculiarities comparatively with an Indian visitor or NRI from the Singapore or US (A Chineze home bias).
India scores far better in corporate management and private entrepreneurships than China, as a consequence of a late Chinese step-up to private ownership. Although, China opened (Deng Xiapong era 1978) herself to the world in terms of globalization and open door policy much ahead of India. India was compelled to lateralize and open her Globalization door on the aftermath of the IMF induced currency and debt crisis of 1991, when Manmohan Singh was the Finance Minister). China scores low on financial transparency and innovation, as they lack a pure state derivative markets, Central party maneuvered and biased credit off take and delivery mechanism even though having a well-integrated banking system. However, India has a very rigid and robust risk management system and higher banking transparency when compared to China on this agenda. However, Indian exports constiture only 13% of her GDP to that of China’s 43% in manufacturing output as a share of exports.
Lastly, China scores variably over India in urban cleanliness and landscape maintenance, as well as being one of the biggest polluter and emitter of Green-House Gases. Chinese cities are by far much cleaner and well designed that even some of the best new cities in India. For a fair comparison, China has more megalopolis relative to India in the same breadth, and more spacious, less dense on population vis-à-vis India. China also runs the world’s first intercity Maglev transportation Train (Shangai Maglev) that runs at 431 Km/hr, the fastest train under commercial trial on Earth.
So, on the same brethren, one need not perform a comparative analysis, but would seek synergies in bilateral trade and Technology transfers and sharing common mutual friendship, and a joint effort to save this mother earth from going down under the sea by comprehensively cutting down pollutant gases, a greater role on poverty reductions and disaster management (both countries have equivocally experienced earthquakes and Tsunamis, Cold and drought)which would and should, ultimately benefit both countries at large.
Comment by Sidharta Chtterjee — September 29, 2009 @ 4:02 pm
Bangkok grew at an average rate of 9.4% from 1985-1996…that’s tremendous growth… had it not been political turmoil, it would have been Thailand, not China, have been the largest economy in Asia.
Comment by suresh shah — October 1, 2009 @ 1:05 pm
Couple of things are missed in these comparisons. China’s early start: Strategically, China has always been of great importance to the West, initially to isolate the USSR and then for its 1 billion customers. China by strategically choosing its friends has benefited from massive USSR investment as a communist brother, then in the 1970’s it turned with Nixon’s visit, and benefited greatly from its rich Asian little brothers – Hong Kong, Taiwan, S.Korea and Japan. India being finally rid of Euro centric jingoism, chose economic isolation and the company of poor, developing countries. But you have to dress for the job you want and the friends you choose will influence your behavior and what you learn. As a Chinese commentator said, China has a keen sense of history. China knew it was lagging Asia and could end up like Russia. It dressed for its place in the world. It became very image conscious, focusing on winning gold medals and demolishing poor, dirty neighborhoods in old cities like Shanghai to create a public face that would impress the world and bring investors.
Can the Indian nation able to develop too?
You don’t need to have only one language, one culture, or one leader. Ancient China did not speak one language and yet it was the center for East Asia. It invented pictographic writing so its different citizens could read the same meaning. Ancient China also fought itself (”the Warring States”) and didn’t always rule itself. The mongols ruled mainland Asia. The great Mongol of China was related to the Mongol King of the West in Iran. The Mughals who ruled India considered themselves related to mongols of central Asia.
Can India rise up from dirty and poverty?
I have eaten in old Chinese neighborhoods where they clean dishes in dirty water by the roadside. I have seen old paintings of ancient Japan with people defecating in the open fields. London once had open sewers. European traders were considered unclean in India and Asia. Until Japan defeated the Russians in 1907, people though only Europeans were capable of modernity. China was the cultural cue for East Asia in old times but during the 1900-70s, East Asia thought of them as cave dwellers. So history works in a cycles.
The corporations of the world came to China to get 1 billion customers. World Trade is inevitable. Trade brings information and learning, and that brings wealth and health, which removes dirt and poverty. Infact, I think the next 1 billion people are in Africa and Chinese corporations are already leading the race to that market.
But all of this misses the greater point. All of Asia has a much longer history of sharing than fighting.
Whereas European nationalism, capitalism and communism, have taught false ego to Asia, Buddhism taught moderation, peace and harmony. The “Journey to the West” is a story based on a real Chinese scholar’s journey to India during Chandragupta Maurya of Mauryan empire, the time of Tang in China. And the monkey king comes from Hanuman from India’s Ramayana. So obviously China and India respected and shared knowledge with each other.
China is one country with one billion people. India is another country with one billion people. 2 countries out of 200 represent 2 billion out of 5 billion people in the world. China is a strategic player, India is nobody’s fool. More and more these 2 countries could decide to act together. Lets say they decide that GSM should be the global standard for telephones, 2 billion citizens of the earth will move in that direction. The economies of scale in producing for 2 billion people give them an advantage over any other combination of countries. It would take 20 other countries to agree to a common standard to achieve the same economies of scale. So even if India is not to be number#1 or even #5, they will be pivotal.
Beyond Asia, we need to look towards a common humanity, a one world. And if Indians do not speak with each other with a single language, that just means that International standard English, not French, Chinese, Hindi or Spanish will be the common language in the world. And its better we start thinking and working for one world standards. After all wouldn’t it be better if when we send our first manned explorers outside our solar system as one world and not as a divided planet.
Comment by K Chowhan — November 28, 2009 @ 3:52 pm
Have you noticed that all Chinese invariably change their name when they come to the west while very few Indians do the same? I think the long communist rule (which may have even older roots in their tradition) has bred a culture of conformism in the Chinese – a trait that doesn’t go away easily even after emigration to a foreign land. I think this is a potent force that helps mobilize the Chinese like no other nation can – so comparisons based on statistics is always going to be misleading. They will excel at things where there is an established way forward – whether it be in sports which require precision or perfection, acing the math olympiad or making cheap copies of iPhones. They have a lot of tolerance for pain and abuse that cannot be underestimated – which is why communism keeps thriving there even after people are economically mobile. But there are limits to everything – including Chinese tolerance. My 2c is that they will face unique problems that they need to solve on their own – and social innovation that is needed in this sphere will have no precedents that they can easily copy. I think the next 20-30 years will be much more choppy for them than the preceding 20-30 years of 9% growth.
Indians on the other hand are individualists but not in the western mold – which is why you cant get Indians to succeed at the Olympics – this type of hankering after national glory doesn’t fit easily within our ethos. We have to remember that India itself is a relatively new concept – although we keep trying to look for precedents, we can only find them long ago – from the period Ashoka. In contrast to Chinese conformism, we thrive in diversity of every form. As a commentator pointed out earlier, it is easy to find dirty Indian hovels and public defecation right next to a posh building. I think next 20-30 years will also be choppy for India – and I am not sure the India that we see today will survive in exactly the same form. But for the individuals that constitute India – I think they are pretty resilient – and like cockroaches that can survive a nuclear blast our culture will survive. We may not win the math olympiad or a 100 medals in the Olympics but our social/cultural influence will definitely be much more widespread.
Comment by Krishna — January 30, 2010 @ 4:18 pm