Indians on the other hand are individualists but not in the western mold – which is why you cant get Indians to succeed at the Olympics – this type of hankering after national glory doesn’t fit easily within our ethos. We have to remember that India itself is a relatively new concept – although we keep trying to look for precedents, we can only find them long ago – from the period Ashoka. In contrast to Chinese conformism, we thrive in diversity of every form. As a commentator pointed out earlier, it is easy to find dirty Indian hovels and public defecation right next to a posh building. I think next 20-30 years will also be choppy for India – and I am not sure the India that we see today will survive in exactly the same form. But for the individuals that constitute India – I think they are pretty resilient – and like cockroaches that can survive a nuclear blast our culture will survive. We may not win the math olympiad or a 100 medals in the Olympics but our social/cultural influence will definitely be much more widespread.

Can the Indian nation able to develop too?
You don’t need to have only one language, one culture, or one leader. Ancient China did not speak one language and yet it was the center for East Asia. It invented pictographic writing so its different citizens could read the same meaning. Ancient China also fought itself (”the Warring States”) and didn’t always rule itself. The mongols ruled mainland Asia. The great Mongol of China was related to the Mongol King of the West in Iran. The Mughals who ruled India considered themselves related to mongols of central Asia.

Can India rise up from dirty and poverty?
I have eaten in old Chinese neighborhoods where they clean dishes in dirty water by the roadside. I have seen old paintings of ancient Japan with people defecating in the open fields. London once had open sewers. European traders were considered unclean in India and Asia. Until Japan defeated the Russians in 1907, people though only Europeans were capable of modernity. China was the cultural cue for East Asia in old times but during the 1900-70s, East Asia thought of them as cave dwellers. So history works in a cycles.

The corporations of the world came to China to get 1 billion customers. World Trade is inevitable. Trade brings information and learning, and that brings wealth and health, which removes dirt and poverty. Infact, I think the next 1 billion people are in Africa and Chinese corporations are already leading the race to that market.

But all of this misses the greater point. All of Asia has a much longer history of sharing than fighting.

Whereas European nationalism, capitalism and communism, have taught false ego to Asia, Buddhism taught moderation, peace and harmony. The “Journey to the West” is a story based on a real Chinese scholar’s journey to India during Chandragupta Maurya of Mauryan empire, the time of Tang in China. And the monkey king comes from Hanuman from India’s Ramayana. So obviously China and India respected and shared knowledge with each other.

China is one country with one billion people. India is another country with one billion people. 2 countries out of 200 represent 2 billion out of 5 billion people in the world. China is a strategic player, India is nobody’s fool. More and more these 2 countries could decide to act together. Lets say they decide that GSM should be the global standard for telephones, 2 billion citizens of the earth will move in that direction. The economies of scale in producing for 2 billion people give them an advantage over any other combination of countries. It would take 20 other countries to agree to a common standard to achieve the same economies of scale. So even if India is not to be number#1 or even #5, they will be pivotal.

Beyond Asia, we need to look towards a common humanity, a one world. And if Indians do not speak with each other with a single language, that just means that International standard English, not French, Chinese, Hindi or Spanish will be the common language in the world. And its better we start thinking and working for one world standards. After all wouldn’t it be better if when we send our first manned explorers outside our solar system as one world and not as a divided planet.

What China has achieved, India should, and would have achieved in the last 50 years.(Note, that China was liberated in 1949 and started getting organized after the Great Leap and the Cultural Revolution). For a fair analysis of comparison or resemblance, let us start from the just concluded The Olympic Games 2008, for example, which was, and perhaps rightly, coveted to China by 2008, on the ground that, a country gets an opportunity to host Olympic Games only, and if only it is infrastructurally developed, economically balanced and financially stable. Examples are Tokyo in the 1960’s, Seoul Olympic in 1988 and Beijing in 2008 respectively. In that sense, so to say, a country after being a host to such an event usually develops fully within another conceding 20 years. Japan was fully developed by mid 1980’s, Korea by 2006 and China, likely by 2028, when it would surpass the GDP of USA at current value $11.5-13.5 trillion, and that too, if only, China expands by an average of 9%-10% every year for another 20 years (which means adding 350 billion every year to her $3.5 trillion economy). Note that India is valued around $1.1 trillion and South Korea at $998 billion), and Thailand at $640 billion.

Well, for the Indian side story, taking the same cue, India would probably host the Olympics by 2028, and by 2048-2050, India would be a fully developed country. Well let’s hope so.

This is just one of a single parameter to judge a country’s global influence. But there are a host of other factors, like Cultural factors, regional traditional, Human resource factors, macroeconomic factors, political, military, investment, capital utilization, Productivity growth factors, Industrial, technological and other allied ones.

Till now, India has been and is doing best in Software outsourcing exports, but sooner, China may take over the Champs, only if India could spread her tentacles far and wide. China has been building strategic partnerships with far-and-wide countries in Africa and Latin America, “BY TAPPING RESOUIRCES AND FORGING ALLIANCES”- a factor that India should look into. In terms of Human development Index, China has done a great job by bringing down her poverty level to less than 15%(approx.), while, % of people living BPL in India arbitrarily around 25%-50% respectively.

China is the only pan Asian country (ex-Japan) and Moscow that has successfully built the first underground metro in Beijing (1974).

On the Issue of Nobel Prize, 6 Indian nationals are coveted with the prestigious award. It doesn’t mean that the Chinese people are dumb, but in fact equally intelligent in Science and Technology. Because of the Communist regime, there has been certain disparity and biases against China by the Nobel Committee. Nobel prizes, particularly in Science and Tech, are often considered as yardsticks of development index, or more so, in ranking individual Institute/university or departments, as along with that it brings National Prestige.

China is far better than India by bodily vigor as proved from the Olympic Games medal tally (compare the two countries). It’s such a ‘Shame’ that the art of healing and Buddhism, although originated from India, adopted and loved throughout the East Asia, India still lags miserably on this context behind China, Japan and Korea in Physical fitness and in conventional sports, the reason these countries work-up so fast. That doesn’t mean India is timid, however.

One thing that China stills lags behind India, is in democracy and freedom of press and expression. Well, China, through strategic international dialogues, is gaining on this frontier too, and India should pay heed to that.

China well rank equally with India in colonization aspect, perhaps a little better on this facet (a spurt of China towns around the world in the past decades). Most of the Pan-Pacific and East Asian countries are very strongly influenced by China, and hence their spread of colonization (Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, et cetera). Well, to ascertain historically, India was a better colonizer than China in pr-historic and ancient times.

And let’s not forget to praise the Westerners, particularly the American and Europeans for one aspect, although they are materially motivated and money chasers, the Americans contribute more to Research and Human Welfare as a ratio and percentage of their total corporate earnings, when compared to India. China has been vigorously experimenting with this aspect, and no sooner, they would follow the Japanese model. (Note, Japan invests more than any other country (ex US) in Human Development Index, Education, Scientific and Social Science Research and Healthcare).

Sadly, Indian businessmen have only learned to earn money by hit or cheat, and save most of it without contributing to social sector, building research department, Fellow Chairs, sponsoring Full University Grants or alike. Chinese corporatism on this aspect, although less better off, their government has portended such initiatives in recent times. However, it’s the Indian government that has done or has been doing the most on this aspect vis-à-vis corporate sector. On the FDI scenario, China got nearly a $1 trillion as FDI in last three decades, making much higher inroads than India.

China boasts some of the best Technical Schools in the world as CIT’s. As also, China envisaged building and they have succeeded in building one of the finest centers for Higher Learning, the prestigious Tsinghua University modeled after Harvard. Not even one Indian University departments come in top 50 among the world, where China has 3-4 world class universities among top 50, and 3 Hong Kong Universities among top 100 (see the American non-biased SSRN University rankings).

The last thing about China that highly differentiates them is their home bias and inter-racial attitude toward other races. This is felt by Indian who usually visits China, and if he or she is particularly from the Southern states, with certain linguistic peculiarities comparatively with an Indian visitor or NRI from the Singapore or US (A Chineze home bias).

India scores far better in corporate management and private entrepreneurships than China, as a consequence of a late Chinese step-up to private ownership. Although, China opened (Deng Xiapong era 1978) herself to the world in terms of globalization and open door policy much ahead of India. India was compelled to lateralize and open her Globalization door on the aftermath of the IMF induced currency and debt crisis of 1991, when Manmohan Singh was the Finance Minister). China scores low on financial transparency and innovation, as they lack a pure state derivative markets, Central party maneuvered and biased credit off take and delivery mechanism even though having a well-integrated banking system. However, India has a very rigid and robust risk management system and higher banking transparency when compared to China on this agenda. However, Indian exports constiture only 13% of her GDP to that of China’s 43% in manufacturing output as a share of exports.

Lastly, China scores variably over India in urban cleanliness and landscape maintenance, as well as being one of the biggest polluter and emitter of Green-House Gases. Chinese cities are by far much cleaner and well designed that even some of the best new cities in India. For a fair comparison, China has more megalopolis relative to India in the same breadth, and more spacious, less dense on population vis-à-vis India. China also runs the world’s first intercity Maglev transportation Train (Shangai Maglev) that runs at 431 Km/hr, the fastest train under commercial trial on Earth.

So, on the same brethren, one need not perform a comparative analysis, but would seek synergies in bilateral trade and Technology transfers and sharing common mutual friendship, and a joint effort to save this mother earth from going down under the sea by comprehensively cutting down pollutant gases, a greater role on poverty reductions and disaster management (both countries have equivocally experienced earthquakes and Tsunamis, Cold and drought)which would and should, ultimately benefit both countries at large.

First I would like you congratulate you as a neighbor for your achievement and realize that Indians do realize the fact and respect you for your history. But you don’t seem to be returning back. Though it would be wrong on my part if I generalize that it is the attitude of everyone there.

Some of your concepts sound very funny (for eg. “there is only one greatest civilization – China, and there are four ancient civilizations”) and show your over enthusiasm to show off to the world with out knowing the greatness of others.

I pity you for not being able to understand the value of something called *freedom* and *democracy* . Also learning something Good from West is not wrong.

Lack of diversity might be one of the reasons for your closed attitude. Realize that there are many good things you can learn from the outside world.

My Chinese friend, Realize that :
-> We respect you and expect you to do the same
-> There are many things that India did better than China & vice-versa
-> Learn to appreciate good things of others like democracy etc.
-> Finally, don’t just write a comment for expressing your *biased* views just because this site is not censored in your country :)

So if you Indian people are really serious and want to know what current China is, please use your life (if you are
young enough) to learn some Chinese history. Power and strength of China is mostly built on its history besides things you are like to compare like economy, population, military forces etc.

If I understand correctly, in the greatest part of Indian history, India concept as an integral country is an exception – maybe only in short time of Maurya Empire when Ashoka the Great is the king, and Mughal Empire (I am not sure if Indian people will take this as a glory or as a shame). Kushan Empire and Gupta Empire did not govern the whole India. In the greatest part of Indian history, India is a warring state consisting of dozens or hundreds of small quasi-kingdoms.

Sorry I dont mean to lecture about Indian history, since I know only a little more than zero about India history and culture. Even though I am interested in Vedic culture, and I even want to learn some Sanskrit, and I play Yoga for many years (not very serious, just a casual player).

What I want to say is, the concept of UNITY is ingrained in Chinese people, and I doubt it’s the case in India – along the history and in its current status. The phenomenon that a long outdated and (please dont be offended and please forgive my candidness) evil system like the caste system still survives and may exert great influence in this modern era is really astounding.

The worse situation is India accepts the western mongered “Democracy” by British patron without any clue what it really is.

I have no interest in arguing if this so called Democracy is right or wrong. But I think while this democracy snake and the caste system zombie live in Indian house, no fancy thing can be predicted. If you Indian people are humourous enough, you may find Demo-crazy is a better form in your circumstance.

Due to the longlasting de-facto partitioned status of India history, Indian government becomes one of the greatest multilingual (if not the only one) entity in this small globe. Academically this is interesting, amazing and fascinating. Nonacademically, is it a disaster? The answer lies in you, for I have no dimmest idea. (Un)Gracefully you have an existing (worst/)better choice – English, with this I know many Indian people are confident and charmed, and as many Western analysts analyzed, this English advantage is one (or even the only one?) of the most competitives in comparison to China in globalization game. Like it or not, it’s highly possible that some day India will become a western country – speaking English, and spitting democracy India. To achieve this, Indian government has to do something to enhance the education of English, to let Indian people be able to talk to, besides Western people, Indian people themselves.

I know many Indian people, esp. youth, have hysterical hatred to China as a country and to Chinese as the people. It’s mostly owing to 1962 border war. If dreams can come true, I can grant that China has been neutralized (this word is what Indian people like to use. I am glad for this since neutralize looks a little more beautiful than annihilate) million times. Most Chinese people dont remember this. It’s more like a military drill than a real war. Personally I understand the emotion and passion and ecstasy of Indian youth, since many Chinese youth also bluff about killing Japanese. When putting yourself in someone else’s shoes, full understanding is easily achieved. Youth can be easily forgiven since they are young and know only few things and can easily be triggered by something, anything, and manipulated by some Big Sisters. But if not only youth act like this, things are very different.

Some of my fellow Chinese said that nobody in China cares about and compares to India. That’s not fully true. The latter part is true, while the former part is not. Most Chinese dont hate or abhor India and Indian people, and most respect Indian (ancient) culture. Most are curious about India. I wont say Chinese love India and Indian people, that is too hypocritical.

As a Chinese, my opinions and comments are fully biased. I met and know many Indians, and most of them are elite Indians. It’s too easy to say Indian people are kind people. This is easily right, but in fact meaningless. In personal contact, most people in the history and in the current world are kind people, including Nazi controlled German people who put Europe soaked in blood, and American people and Spanish who put the North America and South America soaked in American Indian blood, and Japanese people who put China soaked in blood.

History is a colorful pie chart, with half blood and half tears and a very small slice of other thinks like glory and happiness. We need to learn the history, remember the history, respect the history, and sometimes forget the history. Otherwise, the next revision or release of the history pie chart will highly possibly have the same shape of those old archived ones.

Sure this is what the whole world should know and should do, not only China and India.But since this thread is talking about China and India, let’s elaborate. I’ll omit China part and put India part only.

India and Indian people should
1 Learn Indian history to get the picture of what are legacy values and virtues, and what’s legacy burden
2 Respect your own culture and traditions while not becoming cocky and superfacially self-indulgent
3 Review and reform your social system and patron-sold political system
4 Try to make current India equally or more respectable than ancient India, esp. culturally
5 Let Indian people be willing to and be able to talk to Indian people before talking to outer world
At least if I understand correctly, hodgepodge is not the same thing as melting pot.
6 Respect China like the whole world do. China deserves respect from anyone in this world, including Indian people
7 Respect your neighbours, no matter they are friends or enemies
8 Remember India is a developing country, and realize India is a normal country

My comments could be full of clerical errors, biased and wrongly ordered opinions. For these I apologize.
I am glad at least and at last I can find a place to talk about India where people can talk like real human beings in lieu of breathing creatures living in deep and dark caves.

May Shiva, Brama and VIshnu bless India!

Overall, I don’t think India is at the same level with China at all. India is far behind, maybe 20 years, maybe more. But interesting thing is, anywhere you will find, there is not a single India people will acknowledge that, on internet, on media(I scan India major newspaper everyday), on any forum, they like to debate, like to point out India is democratic and china has no freedom and simply win on mouth. Indian people, through my observation, don’t know how to introspect themsevles, they do not have a correct ego and simply live in fantasy. I never see a single Indian rationally analyse why India is so dirty(some country is more poor, but much cleaner), why there are so many homeless people, they simply yell “great India” and sleep. I am wondering if those slumdogs can use internet, what will they say.

I am living probably the best place in Delhi, but still we have to rely on generator everyday for some time. Last two days it rained, you can not walk, no drainage system! I worked on the best CBD area, but not more than 100 meters away, there are 30+ slum “house”—built by shabby plastic canvas and stick not taller than 1.5 meters, inside living a family! more than 6 people staying on a place less than 5 square meters. 10 meters away, a man was releiving nature. I didn’t find this place before, as nobody mentioned it, seems no one cares.

This is not alone, as I travel around India, I found this everywhere. I really suggest India elite class, if you really care about your country, and has a sense of responsibility, please find a way to eliminate all this disgusting things, and stop talking about “India shining”, and better stop comparing with China.

India people like to link or compare with China, but in china, nobody care about India, or feel ashamed to compare with India, frankly speaking.