Comments on: A Syndrome Of Denial http://indianeconomy.org/2005/10/06/a-syndrome-of-denial/ Issues & insights Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:05:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Jagan Mohan http://indianeconomy.org/2005/10/06/a-syndrome-of-denial/#comment-425 Jagan Mohan Fri, 07 Oct 2005 19:32:12 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/?p=105#comment-425 Actually, Indian Politicians, Bureaucrats are not aiming for economic success as much as social equality. Eradication of poverty is not the No.1 priority, bur rather, 'eradication of casteism'. Actually, the promise of castist reservations apparently brings them votes by votebanks instead of a blanket 'poverty abolishment' which has no 'vote banks' since it is accross the whole board of castes and religions. Minorities manage to evolve themselves as monolithic blocs, hence the politics of minoritism. Sum total, the disease is not as much Socialism as this article seems to point, but a lot more evils, each bigger and worse than socialism itself. Actually, Indian Politicians, Bureaucrats are not aiming for economic success as much as social equality.
Eradication of poverty is not the No.1 priority, bur rather, ‘eradication of casteism’. Actually, the promise of castist reservations apparently brings them votes by votebanks instead of a blanket ‘poverty abolishment’ which has no ‘vote banks’ since it is accross the whole board of castes and religions.

Minorities manage to evolve themselves as monolithic blocs, hence the politics of minoritism.

Sum total, the disease is not as much Socialism as this article seems to point, but a lot more evils, each bigger and worse than socialism itself.

]]> By: TTG http://indianeconomy.org/2005/10/06/a-syndrome-of-denial/#comment-422 TTG Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:48:33 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/?p=105#comment-422 Cyrus, I believe that the best system <i> for India</i> is laissez-faire capitalism, coupled with a Presidential democracy. This is because we have so many disparate groups of people. These people should be left to themselves to decide what is best for them, and not have to be at the mercy of a "Guiding Hand", controlling government. Whenever Indians migrate to countries where free markets are allowed to operate freely, they do astonishingly well. It is a shame they are not allowed to take advantage of this in their own country! In India, it is the industries that have operated under the radar (i.e. without any government interference) that have done the best. The initial Cable TV revolution was like this. Of course, the government went and f-ed that up, so that now, we're all stuck with local monopolies and shoddy service. Telecom has done well, even with govt. help. But I'm willing to wager it would have done even better with no interference. The Software industry. When our babus don't even know what a computer is, do you think they will be able to figure out how to squeeze that industry...of course, now the awareness level is very high about software. It's not long before the govt. steps in to "correct the excesses" of the Software industry. :-( Cyrus,
I believe that the best system for India is laissez-faire capitalism, coupled with a Presidential democracy. This is because we have so many disparate groups of people. These people should be left to themselves to decide what is best for them, and not have to be at the mercy of a “Guiding Hand”, controlling government. Whenever Indians migrate to countries where free markets are allowed to operate freely, they do astonishingly well. It is a shame they are not allowed to take advantage of this in their own country!

In India, it is the industries that have operated under the radar (i.e. without any government interference) that have done the best. The initial Cable TV revolution was like this. Of course, the government went and f-ed that up, so that now, we’re all stuck with local monopolies and shoddy service. Telecom has done well, even with govt. help. But I’m willing to wager it would have done even better with no interference. The Software industry. When our babus don’t even know what a computer is, do you think they will be able to figure out how to squeeze that industry…of course, now the awareness level is very high about software. It’s not long before the govt. steps in to “correct the excesses” of the Software industry. :-(

]]> By: Cyrus Patel http://indianeconomy.org/2005/10/06/a-syndrome-of-denial/#comment-418 Cyrus Patel Fri, 07 Oct 2005 06:01:12 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/?p=105#comment-418 > Once your economy has a large amount of literacy and institutionalised freedom, Socialism has a chance. TTG: I agree with you 100% Although for a country like India I'm still not sure what is the correct level of socialism. Do you think complete laissez-faire would work in India? It might I suppose... it is no coincidence that the fastest growing state in India (Gujarat) is also the most economically free and has the lowest levels of government interference. > Once your economy has a large amount of literacy and institutionalised freedom, Socialism has a chance.

TTG: I agree with you 100%

Although for a country like India I’m still not sure what is the correct level of socialism.

Do you think complete laissez-faire would work in India?

It might I suppose… it is no coincidence that the fastest growing state in India (Gujarat) is also the most economically free and has the lowest levels of government interference.

]]> By: TTG http://indianeconomy.org/2005/10/06/a-syndrome-of-denial/#comment-415 TTG Fri, 07 Oct 2005 04:24:45 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/?p=105#comment-415 Cyrus, this is an old argument. My question to you is what is the degree of socialism in these countries, when compared to India? Does the government make bread in Norway? Does the government run the airlines, train services, state bus services? Does it maintain the electricity and water infrastructure? How many people live in Norway? How long would it take to educate that size of population, and redistribute resources? How many of norway's neighbours are hostile to it today? And if there is even one, how long have they been hostile to norway? Is Norway a multicultural country, or is it monolithic? How many languages do they speak? Is there one majority religion? And when these countries made the transition from Feudalism, did they go directly to Socialism? Wasn't there a huge period of Capitalism in between, which allowed their populations to attain a decent standard of living? America is a lot more Socialist today than it was 150 years ago, when the "Robber Barons" were at large. Once your economy has a large amount of literacy and institutionalised freedom, Socialism has a chance. Till then, please, let the government stick to legislating,subsidising health care and messing with cigars. Cyrus,
this is an old argument. My question to you is what is the degree of socialism in these countries, when compared to India? Does the government make bread in Norway? Does the government run the airlines, train services, state bus services? Does it maintain the electricity and water infrastructure? How many people live in Norway? How long would it take to educate that size of population, and redistribute resources? How many of norway’s neighbours are hostile to it today? And if there is even one, how long have they been hostile to norway? Is Norway a multicultural country, or is it monolithic? How many languages do they speak? Is there one majority religion? And when these countries made the transition from Feudalism, did they go directly to Socialism? Wasn’t there a huge period of Capitalism in between, which allowed their populations to attain a decent standard of living? America is a lot more Socialist today than it was 150 years ago, when the “Robber Barons” were at large. Once your economy has a large amount of literacy and institutionalised freedom, Socialism has a chance. Till then, please, let the government stick to legislating,subsidising health care and messing with cigars.

]]> By: Cyrus Patel http://indianeconomy.org/2005/10/06/a-syndrome-of-denial/#comment-413 Cyrus Patel Fri, 07 Oct 2005 01:33:29 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/?p=105#comment-413 To Rex Johnson: Michael Moore?? - please... he has expressed admiration for states that have socialist policies e.g. Canada, Australia, Scandanavian countries etc but I've read and seen most of his work - he's never glorified communist states like the former USSR. Guys - I agree that in a country like India, socialism can quicky degenerate into populism and cause poverty... But - in a highly educated and mature democratic electorate e.g. Canada, Australia, Sweden etc socialist policies appear to result in low rates of poverty and a very high standard of living. For anyone who says that socialism is a failed policy I strongly sugguest they look at the statistics in the real world. Just look at the UN's Human Development Index (HDI) rankings: 1. Norway 2. Iceland 3. Australia 4. Luxembourg 5. Canada 6. Sweden 7. Switzerland 8. Ireland 9. Belguim 10. United States EIU rankings: Cities with the highest standards of living: 1. Vancouver 2. Melbourne 3. Vienna 4. Geneva 5. Perth 6. Adelaide 7. Sydney 8. Zurich 9. Toronto 10. Calgary To Rex Johnson:

Michael Moore?? - please… he has expressed admiration for states that have socialist policies e.g. Canada, Australia, Scandanavian countries etc but I’ve read and seen most of his work - he’s never glorified communist states like the former USSR.

Guys - I agree that in a country like India, socialism can quicky degenerate into populism and cause poverty…

But - in a highly educated and mature democratic electorate e.g. Canada, Australia, Sweden etc socialist policies appear to result in low rates of poverty and a very high standard of living.

For anyone who says that socialism is a failed policy I strongly sugguest they look at the statistics in the real world. Just look at the UN’s Human Development Index (HDI) rankings:

1. Norway
2. Iceland
3. Australia
4. Luxembourg
5. Canada
6. Sweden
7. Switzerland
8. Ireland
9. Belguim
10. United States

EIU rankings: Cities with the highest standards of living:

1. Vancouver
2. Melbourne
3. Vienna
4. Geneva
5. Perth
6. Adelaide
7. Sydney
8. Zurich
9. Toronto
10. Calgary

]]> By: rex johnson http://indianeconomy.org/2005/10/06/a-syndrome-of-denial/#comment-412 rex johnson Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:44:50 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/?p=105#comment-412 Noam Chomsky for one - though he will vehemently deny it. Then again, he repudiated for many years that Pol Pot exterminated millions. Michael Moore - as another example. Here we have a Joseph Goebbels devotee - repeat a lie often enough, and it becomes the truth - who is very rich, and a committed socialist. You bet these two, and many like them, would impose a Soviet style dictatorship. They believe that all folks are equal; except some folks are more equal than others - and the latter would be themselves. The ends justifies the means in achieving their utopian fantasy which, as history has repeatedly shown, will lead to repression and the imposition of a totalitarian state. Noam Chomsky for one - though he will vehemently deny it. Then again, he repudiated for many years that Pol Pot exterminated millions.

Michael Moore - as another example. Here we have a Joseph Goebbels devotee - repeat a lie often enough, and it becomes the truth - who is very rich, and a committed socialist.

You bet these two, and many like them, would impose a Soviet style dictatorship. They believe that all folks are equal; except some folks are more equal than others - and the latter would be themselves. The ends justifies the means in achieving their utopian fantasy which, as history has repeatedly shown, will lead to repression and the imposition of a totalitarian state.

]]> By: walker http://indianeconomy.org/2005/10/06/a-syndrome-of-denial/#comment-410 walker Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:45:48 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/?p=105#comment-410 Not the main point but can anyone name any "rich, prominent" intellectuals in the USA that advocate "Soviet style" socialism? I can't. Not the main point but can anyone name any “rich, prominent” intellectuals in the USA that advocate “Soviet style” socialism? I can’t.

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