The Indian Economy Blog

November 22, 2005

China V India: Some random numbers

Filed under: Basic Questions,China,Miscellaneous — Reuben Abraham @ 6:47 am

Barry Ritholtz culls some interesting China numbers from a WSJ story.

• China has about $1 trillion in personal savings and a savings rate of close to 50%. The U.S. has about $158 billion in personal savings and an average savings rate of only about 2%.

• Shanghai boasts 4,000 skyscrapers — double the number in New York City. Still, 17% of the entire Chinese population lives on $1 a day. Only about 300 million people in China, or 23% of the population, are considered middle-class.

• Wal-Mart Stores bought $18 billion of goods from China last year. With China’s annual exports amounting to $583 billion, that means Wal-Mart ranks as its eighth-largest trading partner, ahead of Australia, Canada and Russia.

• In China, the 40-richest people are worth a collective $26 billion, up from $18 billion last year. China has 10 billionaires, up from three last year. The richest person is Larry Rong Zhijian of CITIC Pacific Group, who is worth $1.64 billion, according to Forbes magazine.

• China has 100 million Internet users, second to the U.S.’s 135 million users. In September, there were 62 people jailed for violating Chinese Internet laws, up from three in 2001. The word ‘democracy’ is banned in online chat rooms.

By way of comparison, India has…

* A savings rate of about 26%.

*150-200 million people (depending on where you look) in the middle class and close to 24% of the population below the poverty line.

*Wal-Mart would love to enter India if only the govt would relent on FDI in retail. The retailing giant currently purchases about $2 billion worth of goods from India.

*The richest man in India, Azim Premji, is worth $10 billion. The 4 richest people in India (Premji, The Ambanis, Sunil Mittal) are worth more than the top 40 richest Chinese.

*On the connectivity front, India lags far behind China with about 40 million Internet users and 116 million telephone subscribers. However, I hear the word ‘democracy’ can be used freely at Indian chat sites :)

140 Comments

  1. The term “savings rate” needs to be elucidated. The US savings rate of 2% does not count investments in the stock market. It also does not consider real estate ownership (including one’s home) as savings. It would be nice to know what the savings rate in India entails. It would seem that capital in the US is invested in productive assets rather than low interest savings accounts.

    Also, the reason for India’s 4 richest being worth more than the 40 richest in China is the “Market” valuation of the assets owned by these men. Premji, Ambani and Mittal have built enterprises that the market puts a higher value on compared to their Chinese counterparts.

    Comment by Vivek G — November 22, 2005 @ 7:45 am

  2. Why is it that indians keep comparing themselves to china all the time?
    China and India are similar in one respect only which is population.
    I’m allways amused when indians look upto china.
    Indians should look upto US Germany or South Korea rather than any of its geographical
    neighbors.

    Comment by Guru Gulab Khatri — November 22, 2005 @ 7:58 am

  3. Vivek,
    Perhaps Amitabh or one of the other readers can comment on your point about real estate investments. I am not sure, really, what the composition of national savings is. There also seems to be some confusion about whether the WSJ meant national savings or household savings, as you can see in Barry’s comments.

    You’re probably right about the state of the private sector (and over-dependence on the state to lead economic growth) and capital markets in China as the explanation of why rich Indians are worth a great deal more than Chinese.

    Comment by Reuben Abraham — November 22, 2005 @ 8:14 am

  4. Ita always interesting to see comparisons between these two countries. I guess the main reason why we keep comparing, or are interested in, China, is because it is very clear that these two Asian countries are set to play a major role in the global arena for the next couple of decades. I recall a series of articles done by McKinsey earlier in the year that compared the two economies sector by sector.

    In numerous core issues like the economy, population, pollution, democracy, free trade, government regulations [and so on], the two countries follow such very different policies [sometimes dichotomous].There are plenty of problems to go around, and it is interesting to see how each country handles them.

    I’m sure some Chinese are having this same discussion right now …oh wait a minute – can they do that? :)

    BTW, I just read something about a low budget documentary that elaborates how Wal Mart is ripping off the US. That’s almost become a tradition now, release these low-budget-critical-sometimes-hysterical-short-films on something popular. The people see it, rave about it, and promptly forget about it.

    Ram

    Comment by Ram — November 22, 2005 @ 9:59 am

  5. Re why we Indians keep comparing ourselves to China… see the note at the bottom of this post, subsequently verified by a journalist friend who was there recently… China doesn’t spend too much time thinking about India..

    http://indianeconomy.org/2005/10/15/a-picture-is-worth/

    Comment by Prashant Kothari — November 22, 2005 @ 11:28 am

  6. I think the India-China comparison serves a very important politico-economic purpose as well. Given that China has been using trade and the free market system to fuel its explosive growth, it becomes difficult for Indian politicians to dismiss capitalism as an American plot to ensure world domination (as it was often suggested in the past). You see how Budhadeb Bhattacharjee is selling reforms in Bengal, using China as the excuse? I think it’s great. As far as I am concerned, anything that promotes further reforms in India should be welcomed. Even comparisons with China.

    Prashant, you are right. India is certainly not on China’s horizon at the moment. I suspect that once bilateral trade crosses the $50 billion mark, things will be different.

    Comment by Reuben Abraham — November 22, 2005 @ 11:53 am

  7. China and other countries don’t worry about India too much, not because of any obscure set of numbers.

    They don’t, because we act spinelessly all the time, especially in matters of national security, hard decisions, etc. Even small nations like Bangladesh and Nepal cock a snook at us, without so much as a threatening word in retaliation from us.

    Who respects a big lumbering goofball, who never retaliates no matter what the provocation is ? Most of the time, the threat of retaliation is a bigger force than the actual use of force, but, in the stretch of history, if we never flex our muscles and show force, the threat becomes laughable, and emboldening to others.

    Comment by Theesra — November 22, 2005 @ 4:21 pm

  8. Whatever China thinks of India, doesn’t mean we need to stop thinking of them. We have a lot to learn from them, esp. how their clarity of thought has brought them to this position today. That is, in spite of being a communist country.

    Comment by Abhinay — November 22, 2005 @ 8:13 pm

  9. Come on, China has a saving rate of 50%, ok… but then India has the highest percentage of 18% as of 2003 or 2004, where in China entrepreneurship is around 6% and also all the development and investment going on is out of international initiative and investment. India probably has a lower savings rate but definitely a higher Investmant rate , and thats why India’s richest Man is more than five times richer than China’s.
    China favours Wl mart in China because, the products sold in Wlamart are largely Chinese, but thats not the case of India. Its obviously going to lose out on competition unlike china, if walmart makes an entry.

    Comment by jaleel — November 22, 2005 @ 10:06 pm

  10. Actually, Jaleel, China has a much higher investment rate too. According to the IMF, China’s investment rate is at about 46%, among the highest in the world. India’s investment rate in 2005 is expected to be about 30%. The reason why the rich in India are far richer is probably because, as Vivek suggested, capital markets works much better in India and allow for fair market valuations.

    Comment by Reuben Abraham — November 22, 2005 @ 10:27 pm

  11. Hi Reuben: You might have hit it right there.

    China is ahead of India in terms of infrastructure (roads and communication lines). Also, China is far ahead in terms of economic liberalization (seriously!). You only have to see the WSJ-Heritage Foundation index of economic freedom, published annually. Economic freedom represents the ease of doing business in the country. China ranks far above India even today. (US ranks 5th, Singapore and Hong Kong consistently top the list).

    Where India scores higher is in the maturity of her financial institutions including banking, stock exchanges and monetary system (Reserve Banking). That is the reason India is able to float her currency while China still pegs its to the dollar.

    This precisely is the reason Indian companies are valued higher by the market. An imature (and unstable) financial system constitutes an investment risk (remember the Asian currency crisis?).

    The reason for the interest in comparison between India and China is the path to free markets followed by these two diverse systems. China has little political freedom but greater economic freedom. India has political freedom but comparatively lesser economic freedom.

    Comment by Vivek G — November 22, 2005 @ 11:24 pm

  12. Abhinay i’ll have to take the arguementative indian position here and disagree.

    Whatever China thinks of India, doesn’t mean we need to stop thinking of them. We have a lot to learn from them, esp. how their clarity of thought has brought them to this position today. That is, in spite of being a communist country.

    We dont have much to learn from them b/c culturaly, historicaly and politicaly these are different entities. The chinese thought in recent history has been anything but clear.
    They have been bumbling through a lot more than indians. I’ll use your language to explain my point further. The ‘clarity of thought’ has brought americans and germans a lot more success than the chinese. We in india have to look at these society for ideas.
    One should read about mao’s famine in the not so recent history.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805056688/103-9483061-1863848?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance

    Can india enforce ‘work permits’ to workers with in india and create a situation which is
    similar to the illegal aliens working for less money in US?
    But this is what the chinese did in their own country.

    The differences of attitude between india and china are way too many.
    This is why i dont see any reason why india should try to emulate china in any way.
    Most of india’s economic problem cant be solved in any chinese oriented framework and the frameworks that can work in india are more american oriented or purely indigenous.

    Comment by Guru Gulab Khatri — November 22, 2005 @ 11:41 pm

  13. [...] that China is “going up by leaps and bounds”, here is a sobering statistic. Check out these numbers from Indian Economy blog Incidentally [...]

    Pingback by Broadband Blog » Blog Archive » Chinese- no love lost — November 28, 2005 @ 6:18 am

  14. Chindia’s suprises

    During the PSD Forum we asked Yasheng Huang of MIT (who is Chinese) to talk about what China can learn from India. We then asked Sridhar Ramasubbu of Wipro (who is Indian) to talk about what India can lean from their northern neighbors. Joerg Wuttle of…

    Trackback by PSD Blog - The World Bank Group - Private Sector Development — April 17, 2006 @ 6:43 am

  15. There are many reasons why India and China are different as can be seen by these facts and related comments. I would contend that there are two macro certainties that define differences in these countries:

    1. Geography: China is a temperate country like the US and the rest of East Asia while India is a tropical country. Life is harder in tropical countries.

    2. Demographics: China is 95% Han with most speaking dialects that are understood by others. India is made up of dozens of different groups of people as a result of numerous conquerers from Central Asia, East Asia and Europe.

    As a result I think India has developed a humanistic, consensus driven society that embraces diversity of thought while China like all the other East Asian tigers (Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, etc.) is “too pragmatic” (to quote Yasheng Huang of MIT). They have focused on visible economic growth–highways and skyscrapers rather than spirituality and humanism.

    Comment by Vinit Nijhawan — May 8, 2006 @ 4:06 am

  16. What I felt China lacked during my brief stay was the lack of skilled Human Resources. I felt that when it came to decision making the Chinese professionals are a bit slow and wait for instructions rather than take initiatrives. May be years of Socialism has dented their natural inquisitive skills a bit…not that we Indian are great on that quality either

    Comment by Guevara Giri — May 20, 2006 @ 7:24 am

  17. I am a Chinese studying in the US now. I happened to see this website when I searched for some India information for an International forum. I learned a lot of India from your great comments and it’s a pleasure to read many Indian’s opinions about China. To give you some information about China, I’d like to share some of my personal views for your reference.

    First, I have to say Chinese need to improve the communication between two nations. For most Chinese, India is still a mysterious country which very few Chinese visited before. Lots of Chinese know who the presidents of American, Russia, UK, Korea, Japan, or Singapore are. But very few people know who India’s president is, let alone India’s culture, economy, and people. The only thing we know about India is the prosper software outsourcing industry. It’s a shame we Chinese know little about our close neighbor. Our mainstream media should be blamed for it.

    Secondly, as for China, although we made some progresses in the past 30 years, we clearly understand we still have a long way to go. Though our manufacturing industry is booming, our workers’ productivity and energy utilization are much lower than those in Japan and US. Also, we sacrificed environment for the fast growth of economy. We feel extremely uncomfortable with the increasing gap between the rural and the urban, the west and the east, and the poor and the rich. Bureaucracy, corruption, and lack of transparency are still big problems of Chinese government. We still need more democracy to influence the policy makers.

    Thirdly, Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has realized these problems and made big reforms in the past 30 years. Common people are getting more and more powerful and the whole society is becoming more open. For example, based on a new regulation in 2002, capitalists are allowed to join Communist party and express their requests in National Delegate Conference, a move which seems to be ridiculous 10 years ago. Also, in 2005, Chinese government permanently obsolete agricultural tax, which had been imposed in China for more than 2000 years, to release farmers’ burden. In terms of freedom of speech, you might be surprised if you go to China’s largest Internet media “www.sina.com.cn” and see people’s strong comments on government policies, corruption, and CCP’s issues. I saw many India mentioned the Culture Revolution we had before. I believe, under the current government and institution, it’s impossible for China to have another huge tragedy again.

    Fourthly, although personally I don’t like CCP and refused to join CCP while I was in university, I have to say it’s leading the Chinese toward the right direction. The incumbent 2 leaders, Present Jintao Hu and Premier Jiabo Wen, are among the best Chinese leaders in the past 30 years. Both of them worked in the poorest places of China for a long time and they really understand mass society’s needs. They cared about poor people’s lives and punished corrupted officials relentlessly. I am glad to see their great effort on making big changes in government organization and policies in the past 3 years.

    Generally speaking, both China and India are developing countries eager to build flourishing societies and improve people’s well-beings. Our economics are more complementary than substituted. We should boost our communication and understanding in the coming future to benefit people in both countries.

    Comment by Ken Luo — May 31, 2006 @ 12:29 pm

  18. I being an Asian and more significantly as an Indian want to know more about our Neighbour Red china. So i request my chinese friend ken to write more about the middle kingdom.I don’t think we can win “the economic rivalry” between the huge asian giants.the only way we can lead Asia to Prosperity is by greater co-operation between our nations,our leaders and most importantly our youth generations.As a class 11 student in the town of kharagpur,ilike my other classmates want to know about the life of teens in china,the education system and the life of commom chinese.So i request my friend Ken to write more about china because in Indian towns till date people think Chinese love eating cockroaches and jelly fish with noodles.Is that true?

    Comment by Aishik Chanda — June 20, 2006 @ 3:50 pm

  19. Guru Gulab Khatri: “Why is it that indians keep comparing themselves to china all the time?”

    Prashant: “China doesn’t spend too much time thinking about India..”

    China and India are running together on the racetrack of development. China is a co-runner. And is running ahead.

    It makes sense to keep your eyes on your co-runner… try to catch up with him, correct your course based on where he fumbles.

    It doesn’t really matter if China isn’t spending too much time talking about India. Reciprocation is not really the point here, is what I think.

    Comment by Shrini — June 20, 2006 @ 7:02 pm

  20. As a Chinese, I am very glad to see this discussion. Because it will definitely help us to know each other more and become friends. (please excuse me English. Although mine is a lot better than most of my fellow Chinese, it is nowhere close to yours.)

    In terms of economy, China is ahead of India, merely because China started economic reform a number of years earlier. I don’t believe there is a race between us, which often makes us look like rivals. Instead, we need to realize that we are on the same track towards the same goal — lifting our people out of poverty and building a strong and peaceful country so that we will never feel bullied by any other nations again.

    Indians in my mind are usually very spiritual and I admire that. Chinese are often, as people know, too pragmatic. This pragmatism philosophy in modern societies often become greed. In a short run, it may create efficiency, but in a long run, it will hurt the society. And it will not bring happiness to people. Now a big task facing China is rebuilding our spirit world and our moral system after the communism ideal collapsed.

    I know recently India test-fired long range missiles. Internet media keep focusing on the fact that the missiles can reach Beijing or Shanghai. I think it is misleading the readers. We both have nuclear weapons, but that doesn’t mean we are going to have a nuclear war. I believe we have much more important internal affairs to deal with than creating tensions between us.

    Finally, I shall say that I love Indian people. Because I have many great India friends, like Imtiaz, Kritee, Maya, Priya, Guna and Sandeep who are so warmhearted and open to others. Ooh, BTW, 20 years ago, Indian movies were so popular in China that I thought Indian girls were all as beautiful as those stars. But when I knew Indians in real life, I realized that we are all ordinary people, only except the Indians have big pretty eyes.

    Comment by Feng Qiao — July 15, 2006 @ 6:31 am

  21. I am a chinese and I happen to come here. It took me quite a while to read all comments because my english is not good enough. I think two of my fellow chinese above have said a lot about what is happening in China. They also, and I am definitely one of them, express the wish for good relationship between India and China. India surely has the potential to be a power in the world and it has made some great achievements already. I think that India is on the right track and its future is gonna be bright.

    Comment by L.L. — July 20, 2006 @ 1:39 pm

  22. I didn’t have patience to go through all the comments as the main topic seems to be why Indians compare themselves with Chinese, but I have two random comments on the tip of my tongue.

    1. The fact that 4 Indian richest people are worth more than 40 richest Chinese only shows bigger disparities in Indian income levels. In other words, it has issues with equality.

    2. Average GDP per capita (adjusted by PPP) in China is more than 2.5 times higher than in India. With the inequality issue in mind, this means that an average Chinese lives much better than an average Indian.

    Comment by Kristina — July 28, 2006 @ 2:03 am

  23. The last article in this IMF Survey is on the issues of comparing China and India in economic terms:
    http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/2006/062606.pdf
    It is an interesting and easy reading for all those who are interested.

    Comment by Kristina — July 31, 2006 @ 3:55 am

  24. So what is your point, Kristina? China is richer than India? Does that make you feel good about yourself? Then go ahead.

    But I need to remind you that the average people’s income in both countries rank lower than people in half of the nations in the world. In other words, Chinese are poor, as well as Indians. Isn’t it silly that a poor guy feel superior over another poor guy for having a few more pennies? I think so.

    Comment by Feng Qiao — July 31, 2006 @ 8:26 pm

  25. I am a Chinese in Hong Kong and I admire India because of its diverse cultures and religions.
    I do come across Indians all the time and the things which I find funny is most young generation indians converse with each other in english and not indian dialect.
    This is a ver big different not only between Chinese-Indians. Even the Japanese or Koreans never speak with each other in english. There consisder it as disrespect to their mother tongue when there speak with each other in other language – Even Chinese too.
    Indian note this point carefully.

    Comment by LYC — August 19, 2006 @ 7:33 pm

  26. [...] The Indian Economy Blog China V India: Some random numbersChina V India: Some random numbers November 22nd, 2005 by Reuben Abraham [...]

    Pingback by 123indiaonline.com » India Business News, Indian Industry Magazines, Financial Newspapers — August 28, 2006 @ 4:51 am

  27. G’day Feng Qiao,
    Your observation about Indians speaking English to each other is a good one. You are not the only one who is puzzled or finds amusing. However, let me educate you little bit on that. India is made up of different provinces. Their languages, culture, food habits differ once the provincial border is crossed. Besides there are over 2500 dialects are spoken in the Indian sub-continent. You may also find it more amusing when many Indians speak English within India among themselves. Indians are in a quandary where by they do not have a common language. Hindi is supposed to be the Indian national language but it is not known in the southern part of India at all.
    In terms of numbers of English speakers, the Indian subcontinent ranks third in the world, after the USA and UK. An estimated 4% of the Indian population use English; although the number might seem small, out of the total population that is about 35 million people (in 1994). Although the number of speakers of English in India is somewhat limited (as compared to the total population), that small segment of the population controls domains that have professional prestige
    English is virtually the first language for many educated Indians, and for many, who speak more than one language, English is the second one. Indian speakers of English are primarily bi- or multilingual Indians who use English as a second language in contexts in which English is used among Indians as a “link” or an “official” language. Only a minimal fraction of the English-using Indian population has any interaction with native speakers of English.

    Comment by Shank — August 28, 2006 @ 4:59 am

  28. Hi there,

    I am a Malaysian Chinese and I know what happens when there is not enough cultural understanding. Malaysia is a postcard for a multi-racial society (Malaysia truly asia…), we have the ethnic Malays, the Indians, the Europeans and the Chinese. We got along fine; when I grew up in Malaysia (now I am residing in Australia) I had friends in all the above races, even mixed raced ones. Heck, I even know a Korean person here is Aus that married an Indian.

    But the Malaysian government instilled a sense of race hate in the people and our neighbours in Indonesia also caused some unrest in ’98 (masscaring of Indonesian-chinese). They call us non bumiputras (non natives, make us second in line for scholarships, and if we ever give up our passport we can never get it back. Hell, they (government) don’t even consider you if you’re non muslim, also we cant marry Muslims unless we convert into a Muslim. So both the chinese and Indians in Malaysia are in the same situation…for god sakes we let an Indian in Singapore become the president.

    The chinese want to work together with the Indians, we are a nation of traders and have always been (my grandfathers were both businessmen and so was my father). Though I am an OC (oversease Chinese) I still feel a cultural link to China…I don’t care that half the chinese population are peasants and that most of them are rude and only care about money. That does not concern me because in the end I am an Asian. And that is how we Indians and chinese should look upon ourselves; as Asians.

    We will not repeat the mistakes of Europe and concern ourselves with matters like skin colour and cultural differences.

    And as for communism with a chinese face…I wouldnt know, but hey time will tell.

    Comment by Lee — August 31, 2006 @ 5:37 am

  29. Thank god…
    the first Indian I see not gloat about his own country. If only this was a chinese forum…all you indians will stop gang bagging us. Even in china we don’t give a crap about this Indian-Chinese race or whatever you call it. All we want is to get the hell out of poverty…and if you all want a race…well you guys are already losers…look at America. After you beat the USA then you can gloat all you like, like what the Americans and Europeans are doing to us. If you want to be part of their posse what ever…China can survive without India anyway…the world can survive without India. If China didnt exist half the world would experience monstrous inflation and America would probably crumble…there you go if you want a chinese to brag…

    Sorry to spill the beans…but i am just sick of so many indians dissing my country. I f you go to any topic on china chances are an Indian is there to do the India-china comparison…and the chinese will lose because we all hang out in our chinese webspace.

    btw…we chinese don’t talk behind you’re Indian backs…i use to admire India…but now i prefer sri lanka.

    Comment by Liu — August 31, 2006 @ 6:48 am

  30. This forum starts up with a good topic and discussion and I appreciate all the professional comments and information people shared between these two countries. However, it turns out stinks towards the end and spoils my fun on reading it.
    As I know, India is one of the biggest business partners with the United States. It has acquired a lot of the outsourcing software jobs over the years, with Microsoft, Cisco and tons of software companies set up their research labs in India. Aside from this, India has a better English speaking population than China, and therefore, corporations like, Dell, had setup their customer support call center offshore in India.
    China and India will both become giants of the world in the next couple decades. But due to fast economic growth, it already had created a lot of problems and a potential civil unrest within the countries. Whichever country has a better handling with these problems, it will score big and get to their goal sooner.
    India and Chinese together have over 1/4 of the world’s population, and together with their specialized skills in hardware and software market, it could make a real impact on the economy if they can cooperate with each other. It shows nothing except your own ignorance bragging about how good your country is, or how the world cannot survive without you. Overall, both countries are still in their developing state and should continue with their good work. Shouldn’t get cocky about yourself too soon

    Comment by Gordon Lo — September 7, 2006 @ 8:24 pm

  31. Gers keep heat on Hoops
    RANGERS strolled to a comfortable 4-0 home win over Falkirk to keep on the phen of Scottish Premier League leader Celtic phen (AEST).

    Comment by phen — September 10, 2006 @ 3:24 am

  32. Comparing two things so vastly different always draws assumptions. This is true to the case with China V. India. It is vissibly that China is beating India overall in terms of economic performance and capacity. But culturally India leads China. China, no matter how you look at her, admires the West. China is becoming the next Japan, we are immitating their (the west) code of conduct and ignoring our cultural identity. Whilst India still holds true to many of its traditions, such as many Indian women still wearing the sari* [spell check :P] while many chinese women have turned to western dresses, shirts, miniskirts etc. This might be because development in India hasnt been as rapid as it had been in China. But really does developments really require an entire nation to immitate another?

    I could go on, but i’ll avoid the bait thanks :)

    Comment by Loh — September 13, 2006 @ 12:46 pm

  33. As an Indian I find funny that foreign people is very much ignorant about situation in India.here democracy is really fused.people think theoretically but are rarely practical.here politician always peer and jeolous of china’s achievement and try to imitate the policy but process and results will never be done effectively.people always say
    why chinks(chinese) are progressing very fast,(people here think that
    chinks are funny looking,even comparable to monkey).people here are racial profiling about chinks.

    Comment by risang — September 19, 2006 @ 10:02 pm

  34. GDP as Percentage of World (2000 to 2020)
    ===========================================
    World 100
    Africa 18 (9 to 23)
    China 16 (8 to 20)
    India 10 (3 to 17)
    European Union 9 (4 to 15)
    USA 9 (5 to 20)
    Asean 7 (4 to 11)
    Brazil 6 (3 to 7)
    Russia 6 (2 to 13)
    Middle East 5 (4 to 6)
    Pakistan 2 (1 to 4)
    Japan 2 (1 to 5)
    Bangladesh 1 (1 to 3)
    All Other 9 (5 to 15)

    Note : These estimates take into account small to medium terrotorial and population changes. The estimates are computed based on population, food production, terroritory sizes and other factors. The world map may look quite different past 2020 based on our research.

    Comment by Raj — September 21, 2006 @ 9:53 pm

  35. Although I donot know much about China yet one thing I would like to praise about China are the steps taken by Chinese govt to control population which certainly will take China ahead of India.India is also the victim of high level corruption and vast economic and regional disparities.Population control checks are also not adopted coz division of finances among different states is based on population. More population more finances. So, who wants to bear the brunt. Yet India has best software professionals in the world and most prestigious institutes IIT’s and IIM’s whose professionals are in great demand all over the world. But these days these professionals prefer staying in india and hence contribute to economic growth here. Also about english speaking population I feel it is a good thing as it offers more oppurtunities as india is going global. Most people in India know more than or atleast two languages- english being one of them. Hence, we are developing but not compromising with our culture. English gives us an added advantage over China

    Comment by neha — October 4, 2006 @ 5:16 pm

  36. Is China another India?

    No, they are different in many ways, including culutre, language, physiology, economy size and other factors.

    Yes, there are human beings living in both nations. There are cities, buildings, roads, rivers, mountains, laws and other things.

    Comment by Raj Chanani — October 12, 2006 @ 1:47 am

  37. Here is another article comparing China with India

    http://newschecker.blogspot.com/2006/10/comparing-china-with-india-by-numbers.html

    Comment by Steven — October 23, 2006 @ 7:28 pm

  38. I am a Malaysian Chinese, and yes I see that first hand, but the Indians work hard too. Its just for some reason I dont know why they are not as successful as the chinese.

    Comment by Nigel — October 31, 2006 @ 9:15 am

  39. With about 15% of the population, 10% of food production, 3% of land, 8% of cell phone users and 5% of electricity consumption, India should have 8% to 10% of the World GDP.

    Comment by Dude — November 14, 2006 @ 10:53 pm

  40. We have a large number of Indian students here at the University of Hong Kong, they speak very good English, but not Chinese at all.

    Comment by Chan — November 15, 2006 @ 5:02 pm

  41. It is upto the new generation to propel us forward and not  abondon India to make the US richer.

    Comment by Ramsey — November 16, 2006 @ 11:38 am

  42. As far as India is concerned.
    I feel we just need to work on the infrastructure part in India and not ruin the environment we live in.

    ie. More forest area (40% minimum) and cleaner coasts, rivers and more national parks with Wild life conservation firmly in place.

    It will take 4 to 6 years and can be done carefully and correctly.

    We need to focus on NOT making our cities grow bigger in size but taking the comforts of the cities to villages
    through better communications and ammenities.
    Cleaner cities + Cleaner villages.
    Population Control is a must.

    We also need to upgrade our armed forces and have the largest airforce and Navy in all of Asia.

    We need to streamline our democracy. ie. cut out the various political parties and allow only three to be legal.
    Completely outlaw all communist parties in India as they are nothing but trouble.

    As far as China is concerned. All I can say is that as long as they remain in Tibet they are too close to us for any comfort.
    Every nation need some personal space and a Neutral (independent) but stable buffer state of Tibet would
    been ideal.

    When this happens you will notice a lot less Indians dissing chinese at blog sites.

    Comment by Vishnu Sharma — November 22, 2006 @ 1:17 am

  43. to Vishnu Sharma,
    I somehow like your ideas, but you really sound like dreaming to me.
    And the way you want to streamline democracy makes it no longer democracy as such.

    Comment by Nelash — November 23, 2006 @ 11:47 pm

  44. To Nelash,

    If we don’t dream we do not get anywhere. If it is good enough to sound like a dream
    then when it happens in reality then it will result in a smile on everyones face.

    Streamlining democracy is a good thing.

    Take USA, UK, Australia
    You have a maximum of just two or three political parties
    When you have too many political parties tugging at the nation in various directions,
    you have completely arrested the wheels of democratic progress.
    What you have is a series of weak co-alition governments who cannot and do not make policy.

    Like I said a firm hand and consesus among various sections of the population is must
    I prefer a democracy where we go to the people with spot Polls.
    For example Take a vote on implementation of Uniform Civil Code

    If majority of Indians vote for it then pass it as a law. (Do you agree ?)
    Take a vote on Water Salination plants in the eastern coast with only those states involved.
    If people vote freely and fairly for it
    Then Implement it.

    Privatize firms as far as possible. Even Building national highways can be contracted to a private firm with proven expertise.

    Democracy is not democracy at all if all we have are endless debates and stymied situations. It only leads to a lot of built up frustration.

    Comment by Vishnu Sharma — November 27, 2006 @ 11:57 pm

  45. Please take a look at the cities in China and India and you will know one is in heaven and one is still in hell.

    If you don’t believe it, just google Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou/Shenzhen/Hangzhou/DaLian pictures.

    So we chinese are not interested in comparing with India at all.
    The Chinese people are already enjoying the most advanced technology in the world, including the world’s fastest train/subway, the tallest skyscrapers, the biggest shopping mall, the largest exhibition center.

    I never saw any Chinese media mentioned the word “India” in our newspaper or magazines.
    The only one country we are interested in is U.S(Sometimes Japan is counted as well)

    Btw, the 2006 annual GDP growth rate of China is 10.5%.
    With this kind of developing rate,China can do any improvment it wants.

    Let’s see what China will look like in 2008 Olympic games.

    Comment by Henry — November 29, 2006 @ 10:34 pm

  46. I am not interested in comparing the economies of India and China. I hope that no one else is, either. It only shows an inferiority complex. Which need not exist. I am going to explain why India is best compared only with itself.

    India has the racial, cultural, and religious diversity of a continent. No country can even come close to this. Where else does each state have its own language(s), dance(s), cuisine(s), and tradition(s)? Where else is there a democratically elected communist party? Where else do people have more in common with bordering countries than with their own citizens at the other end? Where else is this kind of variety, colour, spice?

    The reason I am talking about the cultural aspect is simple. People do what works for them. Cultural aspects in the end dictate the economy. The kind of success that India has, and will have, in the future, cannot be compared with any other nation’s. Because it is different. India should do what works for itself.

    Contrary to every opinion expressed in this forum, India should not compare itself with ANY other country. Does India need the materially-driven, anonymous, and environmentally-irresponsible culture of the West? Does India need the shallow, West-imitating culture of the Far East? A definite ‘no’ to both.

    India is already the greatest nation on the planet. No doubt about it. A nation with violently held personal opinions, strongly preserved traditions, and an all-embracing philosophy that has stood the test of time. No other country has any of the things mentioned above. India is different and very unique. What it should focus on is uplifting itself on it’s own terms.

    Because it can. Thank you for your time.

    Comment by Dilip Louis — November 30, 2006 @ 6:36 pm

  47. I believe India is a great country(I am Chinese). India has great potential with smart people. The Indians I met are as smart if not smarter than the chinese. However, I think they need more big picture and aggressiveness. Serving the westerners should not make you happy or braggy, not if you want to really kick ass in the world. The Chinese are never sensitive about whether the westerners like us, not even when we were poor.

    If you look at all the successful economies in the world, none of them are rich because of they speak English. Excuse my language, but no country got rich being servants to another country. If you look at Japan, Germany, etc., they barely speak or use English at all!! Yet they are the model of the world.

    If you are serious about building a world class economy, i think it is really important to not brag about how your service sectors are or even the IT sector. They are good advances, but they really do not matter if you look at the big picture. This is also true for those bragging Chinese, enjoying today and not seeing the crises.

    I really suggest we should stop comparing and rivaling with the Chinese(Both are poor countries), instead, compare to and learn from USA, Japan and the West.

    Let me put it more bluntly: Comparing and rivaling to another poor country reveals one thing, that we feel inferior to the west!!!!!!!

    Comment by Jim — December 1, 2006 @ 11:06 am

  48. No comments on me?

    Comment by jim — December 1, 2006 @ 10:27 pm

  49. I totally agree with my chinese fellows that we should stop comparing the two countries . Why cant India and China be friends and work together for a better Asia.By competing like this , We just benefit the west not ourselves nor Asia .Those westerners are probably laughing at us for competing like two hungry assholes. Let’s stop bashing one another and work together for the sake of Asia

    Comment by tony — December 3, 2006 @ 3:25 am

  50. I’m interested in a well reasoned and fact based dialog or exchange of views about and between our two biggest Asian countries .I believe this will be interesting and instructive given the very different nature and history of both China and India.

    But I find this forum is degenerating into a farce. Unfortunately there is a sickening and overwhelming concern about WINNING THE RACE.The tenor is as if there is an unofficial WAR already!It’s aggressive, polemic, ill informed and bigoted (maybe even racist). So far this is more evident from SOME of our Indian contributors.The only excuse I can find in their defense is their perhaps sense of inferiority or of already lost to the chinese and some how making the chinese part of their problem!(It must make them feel better)Feels like it’s part of a huge misplaced EGOISTICAL PROBLEM. Something leftover and still unresolved from centuries of foreign dominations and colonisations, the latest being the British.
    As someone who knows and understands both the chinese and indian people intimately with all the attendent issues in their respective histories, I can only find this trend to be very disturbing.Instead of celebrating our mutual and still early progress and success in the economic fields and wishing each other well in getting rid of POVERTY in our STILL POVERTY RIDDEN SOCIETIES , some have already come out with SUPER POWER RIVALRIES bullsit. Its a desperation borne out of wanting to be simply counted and recognised. But please don’t overdo it and tip it over as a result.

    Comment by Larry — December 6, 2006 @ 7:00 am

  51. I agree with Jim, Tony and Larry (It is weired that so many Chinese have English names and use them). There is no need to compare China with India. Because it does not matter to ordinary people in our countries. What we really should focus on is developing our own nations and lifting people out of poverty. THE biggest advandage of our cultures over the Western’s is the tolerance we have. India is a nation of multiple cultures, while China embraced many different cultures and melt them into its own (one extrodinary example is Indian’s Budhism). This advantage one day will give both countries the biggest boost on their raising into the world’s most attractive nations. So let’s just stop belittling each other and really focus on our own causes.

    Comment by Feng — December 6, 2006 @ 10:48 pm

  52. Henry,

    I got to agree with you there are a some of the same issues in Shanghai and Mumbai, including slums and incridibly rich people.

    The government is willing to help them as they are on prime real estate so that they can present a reasonable picture of the city.

    Comment by Bud — December 10, 2006 @ 8:04 am

  53. One tends to attract certain things into their lives based on the programming in their head.

    Comment by Joe — December 10, 2006 @ 8:11 am

  54. World Food Production and Consumption
    =======================================
    Colombia
    http://www.fao.org/es/ess/top/country.html;jsessionid=4294DDF38B064FFD4538C8A5BF34E12D?lang=en&country=44&year=2005

    China
    http://www.fao.org/es/ess/top/country.html;jsessionid=4294DDF38B064FFD4538C8A5BF34E12D?lang=en&country=351&year=2005

    India
    http://www.fao.org/es/ess/top/country.html;jsessionid=4294DDF38B064FFD4538C8A5BF34E12D?lang=en&country=100&year=2005

    Comment by Raj — December 10, 2006 @ 8:24 am

  55. Total Medal Count (Winter and Summer)
    ======================================
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Olympics_medal_count

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_Olympics_medal_count

    Comment by Athelete — December 10, 2006 @ 10:19 am

  56. i dont know why people don’t want to compare the indian economy with that of chinese economy. there is an old saying that we must know what is being cooked in our neighbour’s house, this helps us to find out the area of our weakness and incourages us to develope.
    and let me answer henry’s heaven.Does he know that all his skyscrappers,and roads and GDP growth rate is a result of the liberal government policy, the foreign institutions are enjoying there.the force behind the development of china is the massive investment made by foreign investors made there, no one can enjoy with the help of others, neither china will.
    let me give you another fact,
    almost 90% employees are unsatisfied with their job, resulting in low performance of chinese produced goods, ask a common man what does a product labelled ‘made in china’ mean and he will that this means a low quality good with low price which still can bargained.
    and indian talent and indian employees are reknowned evry where in the world.
    and i know this means a lot.

    Comment by vishal waybhaw — December 10, 2006 @ 6:22 pm

  57. Total Asian Games Medal Count
    ================================

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Games_medal_count

    Verify info.

    Comment by Athelete — December 12, 2006 @ 10:47 pm

  58. its necessary to compare indo-chinese progression bec’s both are developing nationswhere china stands fastest growing economy by last decade india far behind in superpower race can’t directly be compared with us or uk ;countrywide condition is so problematic in difference in income,health,religion major as compared to china

    Comment by vinod jain — December 12, 2006 @ 10:56 pm

  59. Ramsey,

    I think it is the Pull factor. You must master the mind if you are to succeed. Your respective countries are doing good to ok. How are you doing?

    Comment by Buddy — December 13, 2006 @ 11:09 pm

  60. I feel India and China are both old civilizations unaccustomed to their recent (since 1850) relative poverty in a Western-dominated world. Both are consequently prickly and eager to recover their habitual position at the peak of human civilization and comfort. Hence India’s addiction to China watching.
    India should relax: India 2006 is ahead of China 1993 (2006 minus the 13-year headstart China has on India) on most counts.
    Both are poor and ambitious victims of Western exploitation and racism and shouldn’t exercise arrogance vis-a vie each other. Together they can guide the world to a better future.
    Janak De

    Comment by Janak De — December 23, 2006 @ 5:45 am

  61. Comparing China With India by Numbers (version October 2006)

    Check out the latest comparison data
    http://newschecker.blogspot.com/2006/10/comparing-china-with-india-by-numbers_23.html

    Comment by Gus — December 27, 2006 @ 2:45 pm

  62. being an indian,what i sugest my friends is….let’s stop comparing with other countries and waste our precious time.Instead we can have blogs discussing more of how to improve our country, identifying the key measures to and also trying to make our fellow countrymen aware of.

    Comment by anitha — December 28, 2006 @ 1:33 pm

  63. I think Indians should stop comparing it with China
    & shoul focus on infrastructure developments.
    The Indian govt invest lots of money in infrastructure,
    but the way the management of the project is done is very poor,taking almost 5 years to get it complete which could have done in just 1 year , thus increasing the cost to 10 times.
    India have the potential to be a world leader but it will happen only when we start focussing on the solutions rather than focussing on problems.

    Comment by siddesh — December 29, 2006 @ 10:52 am

  64. To Athelete,

    Chinese good are now ACCEPTABLE quality with still cheap price.

    In fact, if you traveled to China, you can find lots of excellent quality Chinese goods, which is way better than the goods exported to the west countries. Why?? Because the price is not cheap.

    Comment by Henry — January 13, 2007 @ 12:53 am

  65. Henry,

    You are in conradiction with your first statement. In any event, goods are priced competitevely. With a revaluation of the Yuan in the world financial markets, those same goods might not be as competetive.

    Comment by Joe — January 13, 2007 @ 11:12 pm

  66. Before India comparing itself with China, i will suggest Indians to compare it with 2 little little little islands first. although those are either seperated system or country/government from China, They are still Chinese.

    1. Taiwan (3rd most personal saving in the world) yay!!!
    2. Hong Kong

    “If” these two economic powers combine with China, India is even far away to catch out. Great Chinese economic circle owned!!! Oh wait should i also include Singapore???? :P

    Comment by TWyay — January 15, 2007 @ 6:37 pm

  67. Henry,

    You are in conradiction with your first statement. In any event, goods are priced competitevely. With a revaluation of the Yuan in the world financial markets, those same goods might not be as competetive.

    Comment by Joe — January 13, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
    ———————————
    The revulation of the Yuan might affect the export, but as much as you think because China can import more resource and raw material with the same amount of Yuan, which might also decrease the price

    Comment by Henry — January 16, 2007 @ 3:54 am

  68. Henry,

    Please stop bragging and showing off the numbers of China. I am a Chinese but feel embarrassed to be your compatriot. Your cocky comments reveals you are not mentally mature.

    What makes you so addicted to the feeling of “I am better than you?” Does it make you feel good? Did you gain face because there are some nations in the world temporarily not as wealthy as your nation?

    What if a Japanese or an American give you a disdainful look and tell you Chinese’s GDP per Capital is arond $1300 while their are about $40,000? How would you feel then? Does it make you comfortable?

    Don’t ever forget China is still a developing country. Millions of workers work more than 70 hours a week in sweatshops but make less than $150 a month. Millions of farmers can’t afford basic medical care and their kids’ education. We still have a long way to catch up with western countries. it perhaps will take 100 years or longer. We have no reason to be complacent now.

    India’s reform is about 10 years later than China’s and it made impressive progress in the past decade. It’s narrowminded to depreciate other nations based on their status quo to make us feel better. This is a dynamic world and economic miracles take places everyday. Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, who knows who’s next? How many people know Korea’s Samsung and Hunndai brand 20 years ago? How about today? How many people anticipated Korea’s stunning rise 20 years ago? Who knows for certain India won’t surpass China in the near future?

    Chinese government should be blamed for many Chinese’s narrowminded thoughts. Under the pressure of government, our media only publish local and foreign reporters’ positive comments and praise while discard their critiques. Surrounding by those one-side bragging comments and arguments, many Chinese are getting cocky and ethnocentric.

    It’s pathetic for two poor guys to argue who is richer. I suggest the blog owner close the discussion of this topic. It only set a stage for conflicts and abuse among naive Chinese and Indians.

    Comment by Ken Luo — January 18, 2007 @ 12:33 pm

  69. Gus,

    I like it, so what you are saying is that I have a 1,000,000 dollar house with all the gadgets and my acquaintance has a 2,000,000 dollar house with all of the gadgets. It appears to be a waxing a waining effect between various economies. You are further saying that each of these groups has a smaller peice of a larger pie.

    Comment by Bubba — January 27, 2007 @ 2:35 am

  70. Henery,

    I like you. Most of what you say makes sense but every now and then it seems twisted. There are various things affecting the purchasing power of a currency.

    1) Availability of goods in the local market.
    2) Quality of goods in the internation market.
    3) Demand for international goods in the domestic market.
    4) Money Supply. (China M2 2x USA, India M3 2x USA, Euroarea M3 1x USA)
    5) Exchange Rate.
    6) Inflation Rate.
    7) Interest Rate.

    Comment by Joe — January 27, 2007 @ 3:09 am

  71. The aggegrate GDP of nearly all nations will continue to rise, thought not as quickly as that of competeting nations.

    Comment by Banker — January 27, 2007 @ 3:15 am

  72. 50 of the 200 nations will design and print new currencies with preferential exchange rates.

    Comment by Currency Dealer — January 27, 2007 @ 3:17 am

  73. Mongolia will make a claim to the whole of China, Central Asia, Southern Russia, Kashmir and parts of the Middle East becuase Khan had conqured much of Asia for a day.

    10 million Tibetians will make a claim to 5 million sq kilometers of land because it was their terroritory for a few days.

    Comment by War Monger — January 27, 2007 @ 3:17 am

  74. The world will see a third, fourth, fifth, … tenth war over the next 1000 years.

    Comment by Arun — January 27, 2007 @ 3:18 am

  75. As a Chinese, I feel shameful to read some shallow, arrogat comments written by some Chinese here. China is far from a developed and civilized country.

    From Indian people I met, I can clearly see the spirit shared by 1960s-Japanese, 1970s-Korean and 1990s-Chinese: hardworking, determination for success. With this strength, you won’t lose to anyone.

    Comment by chen — January 31, 2007 @ 6:38 am

  76. To Ken Luo
    I am not in China mainland.
    I read google, youtube, digg, slashdog, yahoo every day
    China is a developing country, but the east coastal cities(20-25% population) is already like developed country or even better.
    Please name western cities that can compete with Hongkong, Guangzhou, Shenzhen and Shanghai in terms of infrastructure(skyline, highway, subway, airport, buses, condo, appartments, and shopping malls)

    Comment by Henry — February 5, 2007 @ 10:14 pm

  77. I will try to put some facts.
    China and India are simple not comparabale. China is the longest running civilisation of the world with around 90% Han people.The provinces of China are some 2000 years old and still more or less the same. Yunnan, Sichuan, Guangxi Zhuang, Shaanxi, Shanxi, Gansu and Qingdao all boast of cities like 2000 years old. Luoyang, xian and Wuhan are very old cities. India on the other hand had been invaded and colonized many times. It was partitioned into Pakistan and Bangladesh.

    Chinese agriculture was advanced thousands of years ago, India’s green revolution is an infant in years of comparision with Chinese agricultural growth.

    Chinese cities have more or less the same population for around 50 years. Every 10 years indian cities double in population.

    So definitely Chinese had a big lead over us.

    Also the way chinese show the world their development is as follows:
    1) Chinna has municipalities like Beijing, Chongqing, Shanghai etc and SEZ in Guangdong, Fujian, Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Shandong and Dalina of Liaoning. Very good development has happened in these areas and Chinese show these to rest of world. Anhui, Shaansi, Shanxi, Heilongjiang minus harbin, Jilin minus changchun,Hunan, Henan Hubei etc are never shown to the west or media.

    This way the Chinese just fool the world with their development.

    Also all the Chinese are immensely proud of their race and so out of inferiority agianst west and aryans they imitate them and try to make China no 1.

    Indians on the other hand are very balanced, India gave China buddhism.
    Culturally China is just a slave of India due to just this very fact.

    Hence i think China is more developed because if has made its policies to appear more developed to outside

    Comment by indian_guy — February 13, 2007 @ 3:57 am

  78. I think the comparison India vs China should be stopped.Both the eonomies are going to be the superpowers few years down the line.Its true that china adopted higher degree of liberalisation to its economy and finally has surpassed India but India too is following its footsteps,in someareas perhaps excels China. i would beg pardon for again comparing the two nations. Hope the STRONG BOND between the nations is what the need of the hour which will lead to the prosperity of the two nations.
    JAI HIND…JAI BHARAT

    Comment by Prosenjit Saha — February 15, 2007 @ 7:07 pm

  79. Anywhere between 10 and 25 million people graduate from college each year on the planet.

    Anywhere between 2 and 5 million people graduate from college each year in India.

    Anywhere between 2 and 7 million people graduate from college each year in China.

    Anywhere between 1 and 4 million people graduate from college each year in the European Union.

    Anywhere between 1 and 2 million people graduate from college each year in the United States (USA).

    Comment by Instructor — February 17, 2007 @ 5:39 am

  80. Till I stumbled across this, I had this image of the chinese as mostly looking down upon others. But here, I found many mature and friendly chinese like ken. If most chinese and indians have such views, I have no doubts at all of our nations of achieving the ‘Asian Dream’ as opposed to the American Dream(which we have been pursuing for way too long).

    A stupid troll minority has been posting here (both indian and chinese) trying to deface the other’s achievements.

    Indians – The chinese have achieved what they have with the strength of their will, intelligence and hard-working(a trait that all the Far Eastern people share)nature. You can’t take that away from them (the FDI helped but who let the FDI in first).

    Chinese – Indians( despite what you might have gathered from idiots above) are trying their level best to eradicate poverty and mostly have
    a lot of respect for the you all( tinged maybe with a little distrust due to the unfortunate war we had – but that’s mostly among the older generations). And honestly, its not about aping or comparing but learning from each others’ strenghts.

    The closer two people are, the more clearly can they see each other’s shortcomings. Since we are ‘rediscovering’ each other, there’s bound to be a little friction. The chinese are welcome to constructively criticise India’s defects and the same goes for us Indians. Let’s use the power of the Net to get to know each other better as this is going to be an Asian Century.

    Comment by ashijit — February 17, 2007 @ 10:05 am

  81. I am appalled to see (we) indians and chinese compare others when there is not much to compare. This bickering is only playing into the hands of the West. Truely have you seen any Western countries campare each other in such a way that we did? The finishing line for both countries is still a long, long way to go – anything could happen along the way. We are all asians – we should help and encourage each other and not put each other down. These negative talks will not get one anywhere.

    Comment by andy — February 20, 2007 @ 3:26 pm

  82. An in-depth article which looks comparatively and analytically at recent economic developments in china and india

    Comment by Carlini — February 20, 2007 @ 9:45 pm

  83. About 2500 years ago, there were over 500 small kingdoms in India. Today there are about 50 larger states (Punjab, Bihar) in the greater India area.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdoms_of_ancient_India

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:EpicIndia.jpg

    Comment by Historic Info — February 27, 2007 @ 7:16 am

  84. This forum has far less ignorant people than bbc and boost very insightful discussion about China vs India. As a chinese who grew up in the capital Beijing, I can ensure all Indian viewers Chinese will never be a threat to india proactively although Tibet is so close. The reason for China to take direct control of Tibet is historical. From 1500 years ago, Tibetens have been invasive from time to time and Chinese suffered for many many years. The best way to ensure no more invasion is to control them ourselfs, so since the last tibetan turmoil 300 years ago, chinese king had made up his mind to control Tibet, otherwise, all the chinese province around Tibet would never have a peaceful time. Therefore, dalai lama was put into power as a deputy governor on behalf of the king. He is only the No.2 in his religious cult, but the king decided to make him the government head to balance out the power with the No.1 religious leader. Economically, it was extremely difficult to transport goods and people onto Tibet, which also made him necessary. Right now due to economical development, it is practical to take total control ourself over Tibet, so be it. I know many people thinks the occupation unfair to Tibetan people, but in this world, nothing is fair. Tibetan itself is also formed by many inter-tribal wars. If we want it to be fair, then maybe china and india both have to be split into 2000 pieces.
    But india is a different story, indian people are peaceful and no harm to anyone, we can enjoy peaceful time together for many years, as long as indian don’t invade Tibet. The reason for China to aid Pakistan is all because of the Tibetan land controlled by India now, but at this stage, Chinese government will never raise this issue unless Indian does. There is just no benefit doing so on a piece of rural land to us.
    In China, I recalled reading quite a few articles about things we should learn from india, so we do care about what indians say, including many aggressive comments from indian army or government officials, but it doesn’t scare anyone, just hurt our impression to indian people. We can be friends learning from and respecting each other. AND helping each other.
    Think about this: has China invaded india once in history? Nope. I know many indian readers consider the 1962 war a invasion. It is simply not true, it is a retaliation war that should never have happened if indian didn’t overestimate its power and occupy more and more tibetan land. The truth is without China, india will get much more invasions, in WWII, china stranded Japanese Marshalls, otherwise, they will take entire asia, China defeated all the nomad invaders except Mongolian, otherwise, they will flock into india. I know these nomad has already ruled india over the history, but with China, the frequency they have scotched beautiful indian land and killed peaceful people has been greatly reduced. India also helped China a lot, especially culturally. Buddism is still the a major wisdom Chinese follow, we admire the insight and internal peace brought from india. I hope we can help each other more and more in the 21st century, instead of showing offing force and having collision.

    Comment by jimmylee — March 3, 2007 @ 5:58 am

  85. Those maps are for illustration purposes as boundaries are fluid and ever changing.

    Comment by Border — March 3, 2007 @ 10:50 am

  86. How many people have a college education?

    About 500 million to 1000 million people on the planet have a college education.

    About 40 million to 60 million people in the USA have a college education.

    Comment by Education — March 4, 2007 @ 12:56 am

  87. How does the capitalization keep increasing?

    1) Due to more money being printed.
    2) Resulting in larger salaries.
    3) Resulting in higher cost for a given product.
    4) Resulting in higher revenue stream.
    5) Resulting in larger profits.
    6) Resulting in larger capitalization.
    7) Resulting in inflation.

    Comment by Market Capitalization — March 6, 2007 @ 6:14 am

  88. What I feel is the Indian people need a more insightful look at China and stop boasting themselves!

    Comment by V.K.Rajan — March 8, 2007 @ 6:05 pm

  89. What India needs to do is to bring Pakistan, Bangladesh, Lanka, Nepal and other nations upto par in key areas, including Technology, Sales, Marketing, Aviation and Agriculture.

    Comment by Human — March 9, 2007 @ 2:42 am

  90. China is still a third world country though with enormous power driven economy fuelled with communist
    machinery. Chinese are jealous of west and want to become rich, in the process they have heavly polluted their country and made the lives of millions of country men pathetic who need permit to work in their own country. One child policy is also making the population old and diseased with enormous pressure on
    China’s poor healthcare system.

    Indian’s are too slow to catch up with China and can only talk about China’s like growth, but it is good for the country as a whole as it is still less polluted because India has no plans to make undergarments, kitchen knives and toilet paper for the west. India is also young as they are free to produce as many children as they like, 70% Indians are under 35 years of age. The country saving are like 26% which indicate Indians spends well and live life king size unlike stingy Chinese who starve themselves in order to become rich. India is growing at 9% GDP and benifit of economic progress is still not felt by the poor though now India can boast of maximum number of billionares in Asia.

    Chinese share of international trade is like 7 times
    that of India, but still it is the communist and closed country and people live in fear. India is lively and buzzing and very happening, you can feel the freedom and action while in India. The colourful and buzzing democratic India scores much above fearful Chinese regime, which is inclined to make China rich and skyscraprised.

    Comment by Himhifi — March 12, 2007 @ 6:36 am

  91. I love India. It is the most peaceful country in the world, even more than China, as far as I know. I hate to see fellow Chinese’s neglect of the fact that Buddhism, which deeply influenced Chinese spiritual world, was originated in India.

    There is nothing wrong to compare the two countries, as long as we could learn from each other and increase communication. India’s democracy system and speaking of English give you a lot advantages in the economic development. But as someone has pointed before, I do believe India should invest more on infrastructure and industrial. You’ll never be a strong and independent country only with IT service.

    Wish we two countries will collaborate and develop together.

    Comment by Zhao Zhao — March 18, 2007 @ 11:28 pm

  92. If the money supply grows faster than in previous decades, than the stock market can go higher. Though the value of the currency will depreciate and the rate of inflation will grow.

    Comment by Economics — March 23, 2007 @ 7:52 am

  93. I find that most India-China comparisons happen by the Western media. This may be due to my living in a Western country, however.
    The comments about Chinese trying to copy the Western culture, as opposed to Indians are riculous. We (Indians) copy the West at least as much – just look at Bollywood!!

    Comment by Watcher — March 26, 2007 @ 6:15 am

  94. Did you come up with a brilliant idea? Yeah

    Did it take you many years to develop that idea? Yeah

    Did someone copy or steal your idea? Yeah

    Maybe, they were working on that same idea in parallel and arrived a day later. It takes an engineering degree and knowledge of the given language to understand a given schematic.

    Comment by Realist — March 28, 2007 @ 8:49 am

  95. Hello everyone,

    I am a Chinese. I think there is no need to compare like this.
    Both India and China had been good neighbors for thosands of years! Why should we be tricked to dislike each other by more cunning Westerners who had invaded us or our ancestors in 1800′s-1900′s?

    Did you see Europeans living well with each other for more than a few hundred years? (not to talk about thousands of years!)

    They grabbed valuable resources from us, invaded us and robbed a lot of treasures from us. Many of our cultural treasures are now in their museums!
    Today, they appear as righteous, smart, generous people while we (Indians and Chinese) appear to be poor and less positive groups!

    Most Chinese respect Indians in their deep heart as most Chinese believe in Buddism. Many Chinese simply kneel down in front of Indian princes and gods in many Chinese temples everyday. Just go there and take a look. Do you think they will dislike Indians when they kneel down in front of respected Indian princes in their hearts? NO way!

    And, this is why the two countries do have long peaceful history for thousands of years. Many emperors in China even sent teams to go to India and invited back Buddist readings and teachings.

    Chinese have long history of respecting Indian in many ways.

    Both countries should not be fooled by other developed countries as they always want us to be poor and weak and control us!

    We should run Asia well together.

    Thank you.

    JJ

    Comment by JJ — May 3, 2007 @ 1:17 pm

  96. Well said JJ!

    Comment by Andy — May 5, 2007 @ 12:54 pm

  97. It is unfortunate that there are hints of dislike for west, for all that has happened in the past. We live now.. India, China, Japan, USA, \other countries… all together in a more and more crowded world and must try to supress hatred and dwelling in the past. Hope is now, for hindu, buddist, christian, non-belivers, and others, we are all together on this small planet and should look with joy at the accomplishments of each other. India is a wonderful country with people of good heart and happy, China is also a land of good people just as the USA and other nations. Governments and religions may try to cause distrust amoung us, but we must see beyond that and have hope and care and kindness for each other… brothers and sisters in life, in commerce, in helping each other and living together on this lonely planet.

    Comment by Joseph — May 22, 2007 @ 5:44 am

  98. India GDP (2000 to 2040)
    ==========================
    Population 15% to 18%
    Land 2% to 5%
    Food Production 8% to 15%
    Electricity 4% to 10%
    Tech 4% to 15% (Cell Phones, Computers, etc)
    Roads 5% to 15% (Roads, Waterways, Railroads)
    Culture 10% to 25% (Movies, Resturants, Events)
    Forex 1% to 10% (Euro, Dollar, Yuan, Taka)
    Debt -1% to -15% (External, Trade Deficit)
    ——————————————————
    Anticipated GDP 10% of world economy (6% to 14%)

    Comment by Fair Assesment — May 30, 2007 @ 7:41 am

  99. I’m Chinese and I don’t view this world as a zero sum game. China and India are two of the oldest countries in the world. For 18 centuries, both were the world economic leaders. The British rose to the top during the Industrial Revolution, and US replaced the British thereafter. USA is now a dying empire, burdened with $9 trillion in debts, and estimated $45-70 trillion in unfunded liabilities. It’s pretty clear that this century is an Asian century, as both China and India return to the top.

    China is already about 75% of US by Purchasing Power Parity (PPP). GDP doesn’t take into account currency differences, among many other shortcomings. In terms of the balance sheet, China has over $1.2 trillion in reserves, and US is burdened by large debts and unfunded liabilities. For some perspective, US spends more on interest to service its massive debts, than it does for its entire educational system.

    If the current growth rates hold (US at about 2%, and China at 10%+) China will return to the top, soon. I also feel India has the most potential to surpass China, because India has a younger, more educated population that make it easier to compete in this global economy. China is still in the middle of transforming itself from a largely agricultural rural economy, to an urban industrialized economy. I feel to fully participate in this global economy the populace must have the communication skills, the language skills, and the people skills to compete. This is where I see China falling behind, as the cultural constructs encourages the typical Chinese to pursuit careers that don’t necessarily emphasize these skill sets.

    I see a bright future for both China and India. History will repeat itself, as both return to the top. Both countries need to work together as peaceful allies, instead of play into the US warmongers and war profiteers who make a habit of inflaming tensions all around the world – Israel/Palestine, Iran/Iraq, India/Pakistan, North Korea/South Korea, North Vietnam/South Vietnam, etc.

    As a Chinese, I focus on the things to improve relations between the two countries, instead of divide it. USA is trying to retain world hegemony for as long as it can, but neither China nor India need to play into that game. Both countries have a very rich history, and existed long before there was a USA. The self-destructive hypocritical foreign policies USA is taking, will make it a footnote in history, in a long line of failed empires – much like the Romans, British, and Ottoman Empire.

    Comment by JR — May 31, 2007 @ 12:59 am

  100. I agree with the last guest (JR). Western worlds are hypocrical, they have a surface culture but barbaric in heart. I have seen this clearly since I have lived in the US for many years. Western empires are laughbly short lived, most only the length of a portion of a dynasty (Shang 600 years, Zhou 800, Han 400, Tang, Song, Ming, Qing 300 …). 1000 years from now, no one talks about US or France. 5000 years from now, China and India will still be alive. India is the spritual teacher of the world, the highest, noblest, most minded, most thoughtful, most generous culture. It is always that way. And China is still the mightiest civilization ever created by men. History has proven that China is immortal, and is uniquely capable of perpetual self renewal. In a world run by the “winners” and hypocrits, we surely need to work on the strenth of our countries for survival. But we should not fall as low as joining their games and “compete” with each other in their ways. So much I want to post this in your noble language, unfortunately I must do it in English, which demonstrates our true situations today.

    Comment by He Jian — June 1, 2007 @ 11:28 am

  101. I am indian but was born in the uk, i am pleased to see that both Chinese and Indians have great respect for each other, if you look back in histroy china and india do have very close relations, culturally i think they are both unique but have simalar core belifs. The progess that both countries have had is amazing over the period of time, yet there is still so much more potential for both countries.

    India and China both i think are classed as developing, but you have to admit they arent doing bad if you compare the GDP for a developing countries. The only sad thing that i think is happening at slighty diffrent rates, in both nations is the westernisation of the cultures. We both have rich backgrounds should keep some of our core belifs, after all it made us what we are today. As for the China vs India comparison if purely based on Cash china is for obvious reasons, but culture i would say both are on equal grounds, this is why i feel sad about the westernisation of both nations. As everyone estimates and predicts both india and china are set to become powers of there own right, this is widely known, the real test will be how. I think that in the years to come India and China should work together to create a balance in this world, i think china and india should grow together and really represent what Asia is all about. Over thousands of years India and China have given us so much, knew ways of thinking and living, both have helped the world develop. Anyone interested in Indian or Chinese history you should look it up in wiki or something, many here in the west have forgoten,

    Check here for brief overview
    India: http://www.open2.net/whattheancients/indians.html
    China: http://www.open2.net/whattheancients/chinese.html

    I know this is pretty long winded but i think we can work together and respect each other, a great age of prosperity will come.

    Comment by Shanx — June 5, 2007 @ 3:42 am

  102. GDP is frequently misused to represent the strength or size of an economy. Yet, if you look up the GDP formula, you will find it doesn’t really measure that at all.

    Let look at a simple example. If the US government spends $2 trillion dollars on further military buildup, its debts go up $2 trillion, and its GDP also goes up by $2 trillion. But this is not truly GDP growth, nor does it mean US is better with a larger GDP. It means US just spent more borrowed money, as the GDP is inflated by spending the borrowed money.

    Conversely, China is a saver nation, with almost 50% of GDP in savings. Last year, Greenspan went to China to ask the Chinese to save less and consume more. If China were to spend what it saved, it would already have a larger PPP than USA. It’s just that Chinese culture encourage savings, much like the Indian culture. PPP and balance sheet is a much more realistic and meaningful way to measure the health, strength and durability of an economy.

    GDP is probably the most frequently misused statistic. Some Americans brag about GDP growth, but don’t truly understand this growth is from spending borrowed money, increasing debts to what the UN called unsustainable levels. That’s as silly as bragging about having higher and higher credit card debts.

    I do agree the pervasive Westernized culture is changing both China and India, and not necessarily in good ways. There is something wonderful about civilizations that stood the test of time for thousands of years, so it must be doing something right. While I’m not saying China and India are perfect, but given the data and the economic outlook, I pleasantly welcome the present and rejoice in the future, as both countries return to the top. I think both countries will be much better stakeholders for world peace, than world hegemony.

    Comment by JR — June 5, 2007 @ 9:35 am

  103. Between China, Hong Kong and Singapour they owe nearly a trillion USD equivalents. China would need to sell the forex reserves in the open market to cause a devaluation in the Dollar. The Euro, Pound and Yen would follow in varying degree.

    Money Supply
    ————-
    Russia 9 Trillion, 30% yearly growth
    United States 7 Trillion, 8% yearly growth
    Euro Area 8 Trillion, 9% yearly growth
    India 35 Trillion, 20% yearly growth
    China 25 Trillion, 20% yearly growth

    If you keep printing money at that rate, the same house will cost 50 times more.

    Comment by Buddy — June 11, 2007 @ 3:23 am

  104. China, please be responsible and assist Vietnam, Cambodia, Korea and Taiwan in acheiving their goals.

    Comment by Arun — June 16, 2007 @ 10:09 pm

  105. Chinese is cheap, but indian is much cheaper.

    Comment by Leo — July 2, 2007 @ 3:12 pm

  106. The West wants to create a rivalry between China and India simple as that.
    I am a Chinese living in Canada. I am proud to be Chinese and at the same time show equal respect to everyone else including India and Indians.
    The West is trying to create an atmosphere of hate between us Asians. The white people only see us as inferior to them. The white man laughs when we fight and hate each other. They do not want either nation to succeed.
    We must put our differences aside both China and India and we shall be able to position ourselves in a win-win situation.
    I have read every thread on this forum and I have read a prejudice against the Chinese by the Indian people. Why is that? I do not believe you would find this from any Chinese talking bad against Indians. How can trust be gained if our neighbours continously talk behind our backs negatively?

    Comment by JGC — July 7, 2007 @ 9:03 pm

  107. China was united under communism or else it would have split into smaller countries within China. India is the opposite and both Pakistan and Bangladesh were annexed into their own territories.
    China has a population of 1.3 Billion and India is at 1.1 Billion approximately. India is only 1/3 the size of the USA and China.
    So who really is overpopulated?
    Please do not say that China tries to copy the west. Where did the name Bollywood come from? Sounds very close to Hollywood doesn’t it?

    Please stop comparing yourselves to others. I trust that Indians can stop comparing themselves and judging the Chinese and only judge themselves.

    Comment by JGC — July 7, 2007 @ 9:10 pm

  108. Time has shown us that boundaries tend to be fluid and change over time. In any event, it is comparative economics. Otherwise United States, Euro Area, China, Africa, India, Middle East and the rest are doing really well.

    Comment by Average Guy — July 10, 2007 @ 8:24 am

  109. hi , im an indian and really been very much pleased to see so many chinese and indians apreciating each other .personally i respect chinese(but not communists), anyways when it comes to comparison i too will like to compare with china, because it was in same condition during 60′s as india was . what if (its good to see) china is way ahead then us, we can learn alot from there progress (and mistakes)and believe india too will get succeed in long run afterall we started late too .long live india long live china

    Comment by somebody — July 10, 2007 @ 3:11 pm

  110. I am Chinese and move to US 6 years ago, travel a lot of countries including India in 1999. I worked for company in US there are a lot India co worker. they are very smart and hard working. I am very interested in India, including India culture, people, politics, system, economy …

    Well, I read all the comments on this blog forum, it is very nice, because no matter wrong or right, Communication even dispute is one way to know more of us and importance is that this means China and India now begin to pay attention of each other, very good.

    Here I would like to give my idea about India and China, maybe I am wrong, but you can know about China or India from a Chinese person point of view.

    First, let me tell you a very old Story in China ” Long long time ago, there were 4 blinds who can not see, the 4 blind men heard that Elephant is beautifull animal but never saw it because of blind, one day there was business man came here with a Elephant. So the 4 men were very excited and to know what Elephant “looks like” , So the 4 men begin to touch the Elephant, one blind touch the leg of Elephant, one touched the Ear, one touched the tail, other touch the belly of Elephant, then the 4 men discuss and even compare what they “saw”, the one who touch the leg said the Elephant is like Big tree, second said Elephant like a carpet, third one said Elephant like thick rope, the fourth one said , you are all wrong, the elephant like wall, it is big and wide…..the 4 blinds argue and argue…fight and fight. .compare and compare……”

    I am telling story here just mean that if you want to know something you need to investigation, practice with your eye, knowledge, media and visiting… So this is why China president , Huo Jin Tao, he visited Indian this year and invite 800 young people from Indian to visit China… that is good idea to know each other…..Last year there 90 people from India visited China.

    Here I want to ask some question about China and India:

    1.why do you want Compare China and India? For learn each other or just argue?
    2.China government is communist party, it is very fear and scare in India. And china is not freedom at all and people live in fear or scare? Is that true?
    3. if one country politics system is not good, do you think smart business like US company want to do business with this Country?
    4.India is democracy, that is very good, I know you are very proud of this democracy, but if democracy can not bring the good life for all people , what is kind of democracy used for?

    I have more question….like to discuss with my India friend like you,

    Comment by An good friend of India — July 20, 2007 @ 9:56 pm

  111. Hi all

    Actually, the obsession with China was set off by western commentators comparing the two emerging giants. But it cannot be denied that the kind of progress China has made, even if only in the major urban areas, India is nowhere near achieving it. In terms of infrastructure, India’s four metros are pathetic. Just come to Chennai’s IT corridor to know how politics plays havoc with development. Talk to any industrialist or investor in India, they are petrified of the infrastructure bottlenecks, and the country’s political pussilanimity.
    So comparisons are bound to happen. And why not, should the country not have some benchmark?

    Comment by J. Srinivasan — July 23, 2007 @ 7:04 am

  112. This is comparative economics. We need to determine the exchange rate of the Yuan, Rupee, Dollar, Euro, Yen, Taka, Peso, Dinar and other currencies globally.

    Comment by Bruce — July 26, 2007 @ 1:22 am

  113. It’s really interesting to read all those topics. I am an Indian and was just searching about China. I also been to Mainland China twice last year and several times to Hong Kong. (Infact, I love HongKong and want to live there.)
    I am hardcore supporter of Sino-Indian friendship and peace. I interacted with many chinese people during my visits and made some friends too. I think, the new generation in both countries would prefer love over war. The leaders in both counties should understand this. I will request my freinds to please stop bragging and respect each other. We can learn a lot from each -other with right attitude. I am planning to start some business in China soon.

    Comment by Rajeev — August 13, 2007 @ 5:15 pm

  114. We are a cog in a large factory. Every cog is important yet redundant. If the redundant cog is not there then the primary is more likely to fail.

    Comment by Joe — August 24, 2007 @ 8:44 am

  115. HI,all.

    I am a Chinese. I like India. I d like tell some facts about China. There is no one in China to compare China with India. They incline to compare their country with US, Japan, Europe, or taiwan, hongkong, singapore. India is democracy country, but china is not. I feel jealous about that. But it seems the democracy system in India has done nothing for Indian people. While communists in China makes the country powerful. At least, the economy of china is more successful than india. SO i doubt if democracy is necessary for a developing nation like china or india.

    Buddhism is originated from Nepal, not India, isn’t it? It’s a pity there is few buddhist in india subcontinent nowadays. It’s still a live religion in china. We are proud that we kept this culture. It has been an undividable part of chinese culture.

    India and china both have long history. But they present wholly different cultural characteristics at present. In short, Chinese are open-minded. They never hesitate to accept new ideas and new life styles. Chinse are more practical, while indians are more spiritual. Indian nation is a little conservative. They are binded by traditional culture and religion. What indian need is a ‘culture revolution’ and religion reform to release their minds. It happened in Europe (re`naissance) 600 years ago and in china (new culture movement) 100 years ago.

    Both countries face the same problem, population. If they failed in population control, they can never become developed countries. Democracy reform is vital to china. I think cultural reform is same important to india. God bless india and china.

    Comment by Chicagowind — September 3, 2007 @ 11:34 am

  116. I think China, India, United States and Euro Area appear to be doing really well, in terms of economy, military, space program, education and agriculture.

    Comment by Raj Chanani — September 19, 2007 @ 1:52 am

  117. Military Might – I don’t think entire world is going to see if China tries to pitch inside Taiwan / India / any of it’s neighbours. Entire West had invested in all these countries. Even China’s intention to build militarily is also not that. Each of these country is building it’s own military power in fear only, nothing else.

    Economic Might – History told us total expansion will collapse one day. See what was British in older day’s and now how small it is. You can manage whichever goe’s big. Whether geographic wise or population wise. Both China & India face this problem. Both are trying to control that and bring people from poverty. These 2 countries are utilized by Western nations to manufacture / serve them for cheap labor. In olden days’ people were brought from South Africa to serve them in their nation and they brought Chinese to lay rails in US. Now, time had come that they don’t need people to come to their nation to serve / work with them. So, they offshore it to India and get it manufactured in China. Dont’ be proud. We’re all treated as Modern Cheap labor’s, for the Westner’s. UK get Ship full of good’s from China for Christmas and return their garbage init. They kept us both in the same place what they were doing few hundred years back. We dont have any other go, cos, if we don’t do it, Philipines / Russia / even SA will do it for them. So, we both are in same plate.

    Democracy vs. Communist – Both these path did not pay not even single penny. That’s why we follow Imperialist US and their Globalization. There’ll a day after 5-10 years will come and US will tell, they’re getting rid of Globalization. We’ll feel the effect at that time only. Till that time, we’re all slaves for these guys concepts and follow their economic strategies and spoil our spiritual values. Both democracy and communist principals has it’s own advantages and disadvantages. There’s a neighbouring Russia, a Communist country which’s lagging behind in economy next to China. So we see a successful and failured nation who followed Communism. Only advantage in Democrasy is you can speak whatever you want. But, spend time in speaking, loose time and lag behind others. At the same time, you can see US / UK being as a Democratic countries, they’re doing well Economically also. So, we’re pushed to globalization fearing other’s might take that place. That’s the truth of the day.

    Spiritual Might – Xionists knew that whether military / econamy can’t unify people. Even if there’s a man in your opponent side, if he’s a believer of your spiritual values, he’ll become a spy of your’s. So, keep converting both Hindu’s and Buddhist’s to Christian’s. We dont’ relalize that. After 20-30 years, both these Countries might be superpower doesn’t depend on US / Europe, but, they’ll have their believers’ in our country. That’s the fate. But, we both envy each other and tell Buddhism originated in Nepal / India. Hinduism originated in ME / India, etc. Whereever it is, truth is both are soft cultures and believe in peace and love. But, due to poverty, these poor guys are getting converted as Christians based on Rome’s plan target for 2100, by which most of the world population will be converted as Christians. Already there are talks that Chinese people are getting converted to Christianity. In India that’s not new. At that time whether you’re a superpower or not, will become immeterial. Spiritually our guys will be supporting them only being in our own country.

    Comment by jinishans — October 10, 2007 @ 11:21 pm

  118. Chinese are high class people in southeast asia that we are look up to. They are good in school, business and doing better than any one else in southeast asia. Indian are not doing better than native people over here(Cambodia,Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines..). Chinese are tending to stick to themself and preserve their culture, confucius, very well. I think because southeast asia are in tropical, hot all year round , people overhere have brown skin color and the whiter your skin color the higher class in society you are, and that is explain why most asian are look up to chinese because of their whiter skin color and not so to indian people who majority have darker skin color. This is the truth because i have travelled quite a lot in southeast asia and found out how is people doing over here.

    Comment by ray tatengosh — October 12, 2007 @ 3:03 am

  119. There is an interesting book “The Rise of the Elephant and Dragon”, giving a detailed commentary. The above discussion between India and China is interesting. India has intelligent, hard working people (scientists, doctors, IT specialists, economists etc), spread all over world but not the political will and support to go ahead. Therefore, its activities are diffused with low outcome, & is no where comparable to that of China.
    Manu

    Comment by Manu sharma — October 23, 2007 @ 9:45 am

  120. China is a lot like Japan before World War II. Proud of their so called achievements and trying to challenge the west. But we all know how that ended.

    Comment by Rajan — October 24, 2007 @ 7:16 pm

  121. I agree to JJ and chicagowind
    Thanx U mate

    I’m living in China & originally from da neighbourin country ( NEPAL) of India and China.
    China is well ahead of rest od South Asia.
    India is more lke Imperialist U.S…commands over to its neighbourin country like Banglades n NEPAL..
    So pity that we can’t be boastful,proud or happy to be neighbour of India…
    China is blocked by Mountain………
    Pity wis Indian
    So close yet so far……..

    Comment by Asian — November 26, 2007 @ 5:37 pm

  122. To include HK for comparison is too ridiculous

    HK(2006)-first world developed city
    GDP(nominal)-USD$190bil
    GDP/capita(PPP)-USD$38,710
    Population-7 mil

    India(2006)-third world developing country
    GDP(nominal) USD$873bil
    GDP/capita(PPP)-USD$3,800
    Population-1,200 mil

    The transportation in HK is one of the best in the world. HK is one of the world financial centre along with NY, London, Paris and Tokyo. There are so many giant foreign regional HQ being located in HK such as JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, HSBC, Standard Chartered, Microsoft, AXA, Swiss Re, Phillips…etc. As of Nov 2007, Hong Kong stock market capitalization of USD$3.2 trillions making it the 6th largest in the world just behind NYSE, Tokyo SE, NASDAQ, London SE and Shanghai SE.

    Comment by financial — December 1, 2007 @ 9:38 am

  123. Learn to live together, a weak neighbour will be a drain on either country.

    And there’s no need to be suspicious of the West or Westerners, everything eventually will fall into place.

    On a lighter note, Im an Indian guy and think Chinese women are awesome !

    Comment by Aman — December 7, 2007 @ 12:36 am

  124. Raj: Little Arun, What you need from China?

    Arun: Trade, daddy.

    Raj: They have everything, they dont need anything from us.

    Arun: Then we need stuff from them.

    Raj: No, Arun, we too have everything.

    Arun: Oh, that’s not what the salesman said to me…

    Raj: They need a reason to visit the other nation.

    Comment by Script — December 19, 2007 @ 4:05 am

  125. mind control always backfires

    Comment by echo — January 18, 2008 @ 11:45 am

  126. Why the China-India comparison is not so hot in China ?
    As a Chinese I think the answer is obvious to us, we just don’t think there is any meaning in doing this comparison. Our challenge is U.S.A.
    not I.N.D.I.A.
    Our colleagures are ‘send’ to India on business trip – because he didn’t work very well and he definately do not have a good team work attitude — that is why he need to travel to India as a punishment.

    Forgive my Chinglish!

    Comment by xujian weng — January 20, 2008 @ 12:57 am

  127. I found my Indian teachers were very smart and innovative.

    I changed my attitude towards Indian after the class.

    Indian and China are all great nations with long history.

    communication and friendship are more important than boasting military or economic power.

    Comment by mack — January 23, 2008 @ 2:28 pm

  128. This whole debate is meaningless,as it usually revolves around numbers as reported by some newspapers.As if reality is always in black and white!Both nations have long history of civilization and friendship

    Comment by echo — January 24, 2008 @ 11:27 am

  129. Comparing india with China is like comparing bollowood with Hollowood. But somehow, for reasons known only to indians, they actually believe bollywood will catch up to Hollowood soon, if not already better than it already.
    If one must compare, just look at the situation of the Chinese and indians in Malaysia. Both are migrant races who came to Malaysia when the country was a British colony. Both arrived with only their shirts on their backs. Both are minority races in the country. Both have to suffer the dicriminating economic policies of the majority malay government for years.
    But today, the Malaysian Chinese accounts for the country’s biggest share of middle class, controls the economic private sector,pays the most income taxes, are the top richest individuals, best educated,etc, etc.
    The majority of indians on the other hand are about the poorest in the country, highest percentage of beggers, criminals,gangsters(false bollywood confidence)roadside drunks,wife beaters and no doubt the most untrusted.
    Why is this so? There are many reasons but suffice to say, bottomline, is about culture.
    The Chinese believe in self-help,taking risks and venturing in new ideas. When the going gets tough they get tougher. Less talk and more action.
    The indians believe in talking and talking but little real actions and almost no self help nor self development. When you meet a sucessful indian, it all about him talking big and loud and boasting especially in a bar after a few drinks.
    Another joke is the Indian shameless boast that india is the largest democracy in the world. Indiams don’t know the first things about democracy…that is equality,freedom and human rights. Tell me a democracy that treats it’s own citizens lower that they would treat pariah dogs. You fellows condamn millions of your fellow countrymen to a hell on earth just because they are Harijans…or Children of God as Gandhi called them.This is not just plain discrimination…this is babarism of the highest order.
    I have lived and worked in China for several years and never once I heard a Chinese comparing or boasting that they are better than india. Frankly, most are not even bothered about indian affairs.
    And I have travelled to india twice in the last couple of years… to Mumbai, Calcutta, N Delhi, Madras.If you campare these major cities to major cities of China, I call only end where I started ie, you are comparing crude bollywood dancing to classy polished ballroom tango.

    Comment by Aneah — February 19, 2008 @ 10:41 pm

  130. Apologies for the misspellings of hollywood and bollywood.

    Comment by Aneah — February 19, 2008 @ 10:45 pm

  131. China needs to clear her vision as to where the enonomic power is leading her, as to avoid being just another westernized country. Chinese people’s intelligence and capability are top class, but without the guidence of China’s culture, these energy could be mis-spent.

    India should quiet down, tries to understand what she needs. Neither looking at the west nor China would provide enlightenment. India is a great civilization. Her greatness is unique, so is her weakness.

    Comment by Guqin — February 21, 2008 @ 8:08 am

  132. Hi everyone! I am a humanity student studying philosophy,history, culture and art, therefore I am going to approach this topic from a different point of view.

    I often wondered about India economy lacking behind China considering India is a democratic country (officially anyways but not always in practice) and had the opportunity to modernize decades before China. However, I believe that historical experiences, cultural habits and present circumstance do play a big role in a country development.

    The world had always been fascinated with China and its culture. This is simple a
    fact. Going back to ancient times, starting with the silk road, the world had demands for chinese export and taste. One of the contributing factor for the fall of the roman empire, some historians argue, was the obsession with chinese products especially silk. Centuries later, modern europe was obsessed with other chinese goods like porcelains, tea etc. Besides europe, other peoples were also fascinated with its culture. In east asia, countries like japan, korea, vietnam etc was heavily influenced by ancient China. In islam there is a tradition that said, muslim were encouraged to venture into China to learn everything from them except its religion. Fast forward a few centuries later, and the world is still very interested in China.This fascination turned out to be a plus for the chinese.

    China is considered by modern historians (both western and chinese) as having the most continuous civilization on earth. It is not the oldest compared to other civilizations like Egypt, but unlike egypt it continued to exist in a single development to the present day. One of the strength of the chinese people had always been the confidence and appreciation of its own culture and long history. When foreign influences came into the country, the chinese were able to take what they deemed as important influences and changed it to make it their own. Buddhism for example as many of you had mentioned came from India. That is a fact. However, the buddhism that influenced China and the rest of Asia differ greatly from the Indian model. This form of buddhism, the east asian branch, is so sinized and heavily influenced by native chinese thoughts and philosophies, that it is no longer Indian. One thing to note is that China was never a buddhist country despite the popularity of buddhism.

    This ability to adapt “foreign cultural” changes is one the strength of the chinese people. I believe that compared to India, the general population of India are more resistant to change and fearful of foreign influence. A few years ago in the news, there was great resistance towards western influences like valentines etc.
    There is no right and wrong, just the way it is. One of the biggest lesson the Chinese learned from their history was not accepting change when it closed its doors to the world in the last century. After all, the chinese had an earlier start than the japanese to modernize. Which is why the motivation is there to catch up with the developed world.

    One thing to note is that one of the biggest export from Britain to China is teaching english. The Chinese are learning english at an eccelerated rate that many predicted it will have the world largest english speaking population, after mandarin ofcourse. Which in my opinion is not a good thing for India, considering India pride itself for able to attract the IT world by having a good population that speak english.

    However, it is important to note that India for example is still “shackled” by age of traditions like the caste system or religion. I remember one time a few of my fellow co-workers who were of Indian descent did not like each other and the explanation given was the colours of each other skins. And don’t let me go into religion. I heard enough from my friends who are hindus, sikh and muslim (all ethnic Indians).

    One thing to note is that religion does not play a great part in China (ancient or present) when compared to India or to the rest of the world. Historians described the chinese as practical.
    One can argue that the chinese did have a religious life but not to the extant of other cultures.Since ancient times, the elites of China were heavily influenced by confucius philosophies which concern itself how to organized and operate society in general. The dominant head of China is the emperor whom officially do not
    represent any religion.
    During the age of enlightenment in Europe, Confucius was considered the “unofficial” patron saint of humanism
    On the other hand, India was generally more focus on its religions. Its society is
    dominated by its religious beliefs. Personally, it is harder to change a society if it is still heavily influenced by age old religious traditions, especially traditions that organize people in different social classes. I remember one time reading a historian passage about India as a land drunk and obsessed with millions of gods.
    It is no coincidence that as europe modernized its society, its religions also went through a change. But then again, India did not have communism, which in China’s experience tore away its old, traditional bound society.

    China had always been a rich country. I remember reading a newspaper article that the bank of Shanghai was the richest bank in the world up until the 19th century. When european colonial powers were knocking on China’s door, their original intension was for trade especially, england and portugal. It did not attempt to conquer China like they did on India. In the end, it only managed to control some areas.

    Last but not least, I do believe that China has a more effective government than India. The advantage of having a communist government at this stage of the country development is having the control and ability to implement change. India had too many political parties and no party is strong enough to do any change not to mention the political corruptions at the top. This is not to say that the chinese government does not have corruptions. But I think it is clear to everyone what a strong goverment can do for a country especially China aggresive search for natural energy, building the world biggest hydroelectric dam etc. People in the West are so easily to criticize China because it is a communist country but don’t forget that it was very effective when it was only last century it managed to drive away foreign colonial powers from its shores. It managed to reclaim former territories unlike India who was conquered by foreign powers and whose territories was forever separated.

    But more important to us in the modern times, this so called red country managed to lift 400 million people out of poverty in just a few decades. I mean people talk about the rights of freedom of speech, individual rights etc but what use are they if their basic needs are not met like starvation and basic shelter? Let’s talk about those democratic values when every child and woman has at least 3 meals a day and a roof over their head first. Which I think in the near future, China will move towards that direction. Maybe not democratic in the american sense but definitely a more democratic society.

    Comment by James — February 27, 2008 @ 9:26 am

  133. I am a regular reader of this blog since curious about our giant
    neighbour. I am from Burma and I think it would be great if
    Burmese peacock could ride on the Chinese dragon and Indian
    elephant. However we might be in trouble ended up as the back
    water state of giant nations with ever growing demand for the
    natural resources.

    Comment by Aung — March 1, 2008 @ 5:41 am

  134. Well said, James! Communist government can be very, very effective when its leaders are smart and capable. It is an economical miracle for China to reach its current status. China still needs to deal with tons of corruptions but the government can get things done fast.

    Comment by Leland — April 2, 2008 @ 4:54 am

  135. India and China have been friends for thousands years before the war of 1962. Both of two sides fought for land because of the blurry McMahon Line. SO look back our history and think, who should be blamed?

    If China is down, then for the west the next target will be India.

    Comment by Chan — April 2, 2008 @ 11:10 pm

  136. For people who are interesting in using IT for poverty reduction, following video is a very touching Chinese experiment:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3852891107486285806&q=municator

    A Taiwanese business man, a poorest Chinese village, a five-star international conference center, IT labs in rural village schools, connection between rural village students to best schools, and of course the focal point is the poverty reduction by using IT…

    Comment by thecupgr — April 5, 2008 @ 9:50 pm

  137. i doesnt hate china.In fact it is one of the nation which is most respectful & must be appalauded for its growth story.
    but it is heartning to see comments of some chinese frnds,tese r:
    1. boastful cmments abt communist regime; i think they have forgotten the fate student movement at red square.forgotten the massacre of students
    u cant imagine the extent of freedom we are enjoying in Indian grt democracy.however threre is corruption.bt it is being eliminated at faster rate . our media is free & representing the truth.r ur?
    in fact ur communist regime is rsponsible 4 this not u

    Comment by ashish — April 6, 2008 @ 1:59 pm

  138. I’m an irish guy and i’m very much interested in the economic growth of my own country, and the rising population over the last few years. But recently i’ve read that about 9 million chinese are moving into cities each year. That really is something to me. That’s twice the population of my own country. I find that amazing. And frankly i can’t help but be interested in chinese growth in economy, infrastructure etc. I feel good for the chinese and look forward to the end of one country monopolising everything. As for China being a communist country, i feel that china is more stable because of it. I also believe the chinese will introduce democratic reforms as china becomes as wealthy as the west. It was communist china that shook off the shackles of the european and american greed and defeated the western puppet Chiang Kai-shek. But obviously that’s my opinion and a lot of people will disagree with me.
    But i’m sick of hearing high powered officials knocking down china over the communist issue, when in a lot of cases they’re greedy men earning millions, paid to further their own, or their company’s shelfish interest.
    But alas, again, this is only my opinion.
    A last point. Nearly every town in this little country of mine has chinese restaurants. And i know for a fact that most of the chinese that work in these restaurants have no qualms about working a 13 hour day. This would be unacceptable to most irish people, and i believe most europeans. Chinese are hard workers.
    I’m talking mainly about China and not of india because i’m not as familar with india.

    But i think people of different countries are different in mentality, due to a lot of factors.
    People in a Hot climate are more laid back than people in a more colder climate.
    Hot weather can be tiring. Also who want’s to be cooped up in an office all day in beautiful weather.
    Look at southern europe. The south of italy and spain are relatively less well off or poorer that the North.
    Or look at Europe in General. The Nortern most countries of Europe, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark are the richest countries in Europe and the world. While as you venture south of Europe you come to the poorest regions of Europe.

    You might say people of the south are lazier than people of the north. But i don’t go with this. Probably people of the south are more sociable and less lonely than people of the north, where family and sociable occasions are less important.

    So to get to the point. If, for example, Germany takes ten years to become a fully fledged first world economy but it takes italy for example 20 years, does that mean germans are better than italians?

    No i don’t think so. It just means we are all different.
    Not all the same. What a boring world it would be if we were!

    Comment by John — April 26, 2008 @ 7:44 am

  139. Both China and India should be careful and critical of western capitalism. Western capitalism is a short term thing, in order to eat all the apples at once, it chops down the whole apple tree.

    Comment by Jian sf — May 4, 2008 @ 11:39 am

  140. This definitely qualifies as one of the most futile, ignorant and senseless arguments I have come across in a long time. India and China are both developing, they both have huge issues to tackle, besides, comparing two countries is like comparing apples to oranges.

    Comment by richin — June 11, 2008 @ 8:54 pm

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

Powered by WordPress