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	<title>Comments on: Sizzling, Or Just Right?</title>
	<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/</link>
	<description>Issues &#38; insights</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Banerjee</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-264528</link>
		<dc:creator>Banerjee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 07:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-264528</guid>
		<description>But now due to the recession in US economy all the other integrated economies of the world are being are being affected including India. What is your view?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But now due to the recession in US economy all the other integrated economies of the world are being are being affected including India. What is your view?</p>
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		<title>By: The Indian Economy Blog &#187; The Economist on India</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-263147</link>
		<dc:creator>The Indian Economy Blog &#187; The Economist on India</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 04:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-263147</guid>
		<description>[...] here earlier in the year which put things pretty much in perspective and in October 2006 I had another piece in the IEB, basically in response to the Sizzling India article in the Economist, where I said: I am even [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] here earlier in the year which put things pretty much in perspective and in October 2006 I had another piece in the IEB, basically in response to the Sizzling India article in the Economist, where I said: I am even [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: The Indian Economy Blog &#187; The Indian Productivity Miracle</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-64637</link>
		<dc:creator>The Indian Economy Blog &#187; The Indian Productivity Miracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-64637</guid>
		<description>[...] This is the rate at which an economy can (and should) grow without causing excess inflation. The current capacity debate (discussed here, here, and here), in essence, is about what this number is today. Ajay Shah, the Economist, and various investment banks (including Morgan Stanley and HSBC) have repeatedly said that India is overheated – evidenced most clearly by the run-up in inflation, and also by ‘bubble-like’ real estate and equity prices. Skittishness about the policy direction of the current governing coalition supports the prevaling belief that a crash (or, for the less brave, a “cooling down”) is imminent. According to them, economic growth and/or asset prices are both set to decrease in the near-medium term. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] This is the rate at which an economy can (and should) grow without causing excess inflation. The current capacity debate (discussed here, here, and here), in essence, is about what this number is today. Ajay Shah, the Economist, and various investment banks (including Morgan Stanley and HSBC) have repeatedly said that India is overheated – evidenced most clearly by the run-up in inflation, and also by ‘bubble-like’ real estate and equity prices. Skittishness about the policy direction of the current governing coalition supports the prevaling belief that a crash (or, for the less brave, a “cooling down”) is imminent. According to them, economic growth and/or asset prices are both set to decrease in the near-medium term. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: The Indian Economy Blog &#187; Wal-Mart and India</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-53966</link>
		<dc:creator>The Indian Economy Blog &#187; Wal-Mart and India</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2006 14:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-53966</guid>
		<description>[...] We are presently having something of an ongoing debate here about how high trend growth might be in India at this point.  Now quite simply one part of this argument depends on demographics, and another on productivity. Productivity in India obviously needs to rise, and there are basically two ways that this can happen, have better human capital and accelerate technology transfer. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] We are presently having something of an ongoing debate here about how high trend growth might be in India at this point.  Now quite simply one part of this argument depends on demographics, and another on productivity. Productivity in India obviously needs to rise, and there are basically two ways that this can happen, have better human capital and accelerate technology transfer. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: INI Signal - &#187; Real estate bubble</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50766</link>
		<dc:creator>INI Signal - &#187; Real estate bubble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50766</guid>
		<description>[...] Related to recent discussion on whether Indian economy is heating up, this article on real estate boom is timely. The story is more or less the same all over India whether in the metros or emerging boomtowns. Property registration and clear titles are a serious enough problem in Kolkata for HSBC to ask the West Bengal Chief Minister to introduce on-line property registration. Before that happens, the municipal corporation must stir itself to issue proper occupation certificates. Mumbai does have on-line property registration, yet, harried apartment owners in a suburb discovered (only after receiving demolition notices) that their flats, financed by leading mortgage institutions, were constructed on illegally occupied forestland. [Indian Express] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Related to recent discussion on whether Indian economy is heating up, this article on real estate boom is timely. The story is more or less the same all over India whether in the metros or emerging boomtowns. Property registration and clear titles are a serious enough problem in Kolkata for HSBC to ask the West Bengal Chief Minister to introduce on-line property registration. Before that happens, the municipal corporation must stir itself to issue proper occupation certificates. Mumbai does have on-line property registration, yet, harried apartment owners in a suburb discovered (only after receiving demolition notices) that their flats, financed by leading mortgage institutions, were constructed on illegally occupied forestland. [Indian Express] [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50679</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 09:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50679</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all the comments everyone. Sorry for the delay in replying but I had a very busy day yesterday.

"You got it right for this quarter."

Thanks Nitin, I did cheat a little, since it was pretty clear from the Bloomberg survey that the results were going to be pretty good. otoh they did even exceed expectations. Also I was saying all this some three months ago.

Vinod,

"the problem that results is that even though you might have equiv aggregate demand growth, India faces supply side constraints which create the inflationary fears (e.g. instead of buying more cars / trucks / consumer goods / etc., consumers end up spending their $$$ by bidding each other up for fixed assets like real estate)…"

This is certainly true, but my expectation is that the RBI will keep raising to try and take some of the heat out of this. Otoh there are global factors which are beyond their control. One of these is the level of interest rates in Japan, the United States and the eurozone. If these all start to reduce next year then it will be very hard for the RBI to push up longer term rates since the yield advantage (coupled with the high growth rate, and the expectation of more to come) will only attract an inward flow of funds which will tend to keep bond yields down. So they are facing really hard work on this front.

The key issue is the extent to which investment can now take over. I go with Bhalla and our commenter Venkat and think that this is the big part of the picture people are underestimating, and especially if funds move into India, although here the Economist is right, this will have a balance of payments implication. 

The thing is a current account deficit to finance a consumer lead boom is one thing, and a CA deficit to finance infrastructural investment is quite another. Obviously to date India has been living with the former, but are we now about to see the latter take hold?

Bombay Addict

"Why is this Economist article being taken so seriously ?"

Well quite. The Economist has a relatively poor track record on global economics of late, but still, it is the magazine everyone likes to read. 

"Edward, could you also explain what you meant by “I tend to give a lot higher weighting to the demographic component” ? Are you - and please correct me if I’m wrong - suggesting that the demographic content could actually push India’s GDP growth higher ?"

Yes I am suggesting this, but it is quite a complex picture, since the demographics in Kerala and Tamil Nadu are quite different from those in, for example, Bihar and UP.Nandan makes a relevant point in this regard. Some parts of India are only at the begining of the DD (indeed Bihar and UP etc) are still a long way from approaching it. But one of the factors with the DD is that initially there are very big cohorts of relatively poorly educated workers, and this creates large problems in finding employment, and not a big deal in terms of productivity. So you get big GDP growth but not very spectacular growth in per capita income. Indeed the level pof life of the poorest sections of the population probably deteriorates, as has been found to be the case recently in China for  the early years of this century.

But then as these workers age things tend to improve, since they now have more experience, and hence more 'economic worth' while the smaller cohorts who arrive behind them tend to find access to employment easier (provided, of course, that economic development has taken place) and at the same time they tend to be better educated, and hence more valuable economically.

This is all pretty complicated and by no means straight forward. I will post some more on all this in the near future.

Nitin

"Growth can occur due to higher labour productivity and a higher workforce participation rate. The demographic component affects the second part. Edward-again, correct me if I’m wrong."

No. That's about it. With the rider as I indicate above that as the demographic tarnsition proceeds there is an inbuilt tendency for workers to become better educated and more productive. This is why it can become win-win. As I say, what really needs to be sorted out is the precise weighting to be given to the demographic part. At the end of the day this is the main difference between Ajay and me. I give a higher weighting to demographics, and at present I am coming up smelling of roses. Moving forward we will see more clearly. There is a lot to learn here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the comments everyone. Sorry for the delay in replying but I had a very busy day yesterday.</p>
<p>&#8220;You got it right for this quarter.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks Nitin, I did cheat a little, since it was pretty clear from the Bloomberg survey that the results were going to be pretty good. otoh they did even exceed expectations. Also I was saying all this some three months ago.</p>
<p>Vinod,</p>
<p>&#8220;the problem that results is that even though you might have equiv aggregate demand growth, India faces supply side constraints which create the inflationary fears (e.g. instead of buying more cars / trucks / consumer goods / etc., consumers end up spending their $$$ by bidding each other up for fixed assets like real estate)…&#8221;</p>
<p>This is certainly true, but my expectation is that the RBI will keep raising to try and take some of the heat out of this. Otoh there are global factors which are beyond their control. One of these is the level of interest rates in Japan, the United States and the eurozone. If these all start to reduce next year then it will be very hard for the RBI to push up longer term rates since the yield advantage (coupled with the high growth rate, and the expectation of more to come) will only attract an inward flow of funds which will tend to keep bond yields down. So they are facing really hard work on this front.</p>
<p>The key issue is the extent to which investment can now take over. I go with Bhalla and our commenter Venkat and think that this is the big part of the picture people are underestimating, and especially if funds move into India, although here the Economist is right, this will have a balance of payments implication. </p>
<p>The thing is a current account deficit to finance a consumer lead boom is one thing, and a CA deficit to finance infrastructural investment is quite another. Obviously to date India has been living with the former, but are we now about to see the latter take hold?</p>
<p>Bombay Addict</p>
<p>&#8220;Why is this Economist article being taken so seriously ?&#8221;</p>
<p>Well quite. The Economist has a relatively poor track record on global economics of late, but still, it is the magazine everyone likes to read. </p>
<p>&#8220;Edward, could you also explain what you meant by “I tend to give a lot higher weighting to the demographic component” ? Are you - and please correct me if I’m wrong - suggesting that the demographic content could actually push India’s GDP growth higher ?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes I am suggesting this, but it is quite a complex picture, since the demographics in Kerala and Tamil Nadu are quite different from those in, for example, Bihar and UP.Nandan makes a relevant point in this regard. Some parts of India are only at the begining of the DD (indeed Bihar and UP etc) are still a long way from approaching it. But one of the factors with the DD is that initially there are very big cohorts of relatively poorly educated workers, and this creates large problems in finding employment, and not a big deal in terms of productivity. So you get big GDP growth but not very spectacular growth in per capita income. Indeed the level pof life of the poorest sections of the population probably deteriorates, as has been found to be the case recently in China for  the early years of this century.</p>
<p>But then as these workers age things tend to improve, since they now have more experience, and hence more &#8216;economic worth&#8217; while the smaller cohorts who arrive behind them tend to find access to employment easier (provided, of course, that economic development has taken place) and at the same time they tend to be better educated, and hence more valuable economically.</p>
<p>This is all pretty complicated and by no means straight forward. I will post some more on all this in the near future.</p>
<p>Nitin</p>
<p>&#8220;Growth can occur due to higher labour productivity and a higher workforce participation rate. The demographic component affects the second part. Edward-again, correct me if I’m wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>No. That&#8217;s about it. With the rider as I indicate above that as the demographic tarnsition proceeds there is an inbuilt tendency for workers to become better educated and more productive. This is why it can become win-win. As I say, what really needs to be sorted out is the precise weighting to be given to the demographic part. At the end of the day this is the main difference between Ajay and me. I give a higher weighting to demographics, and at present I am coming up smelling of roses. Moving forward we will see more clearly. There is a lot to learn here.</p>
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		<title>By: Nitin</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50576</link>
		<dc:creator>Nitin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 00:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50576</guid>
		<description>Bombay Addict,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Are you - and please correct me if I’m wrong - suggesting that the demographic content could actually push India’s GDP growth higher ?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Growth can occur due to higher labour productivity and a higher workforce participation rate. The demographic component affects the second part. Edward-again, correct me if I'm wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bombay Addict,</p>
<blockquote><p>Are you - and please correct me if I’m wrong - suggesting that the demographic content could actually push India’s GDP growth higher ?</p></blockquote>
<p>Growth can occur due to higher labour productivity and a higher workforce participation rate. The demographic component affects the second part. Edward-again, correct me if I&#8217;m wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: INI Signal - &#187; Growth Without Reforms - Magical UPA</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50477</link>
		<dc:creator>INI Signal - &#187; Growth Without Reforms - Magical UPA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50477</guid>
		<description>[...] IEB&#8217;s Edward, an ardent demographic dividend proponent, argues that Economist and Ajay Shah may be wrong to say India is over heating and that there may not be a real worry for a crash or a recession anytime soon. Does second quarter growth of 9.2% prove that Edward is right? I am not so sure. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] IEB&#8217;s Edward, an ardent demographic dividend proponent, argues that Economist and Ajay Shah may be wrong to say India is over heating and that there may not be a real worry for a crash or a recession anytime soon. Does second quarter growth of 9.2% prove that Edward is right? I am not so sure. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Nandan</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50458</link>
		<dc:creator>Nandan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50458</guid>
		<description>I think the main issue here really boils down to productivity growth and what it really is. Population (and workforce) growth is fairly high and stable; and though it influences the trend rate quite a bit (as Edward notes), it is fairly predictable. I think our workforce has been growing at about a 2% rate or so - which would imply a trend productivity growth rate of 4.5% if Shah's/Economist's 6.5% rate is to be believed.

My guess is that this number is probably higher - perhaps around 6%. This would still mean that todays 9.2% is "inflationary" - but not by terribly much. If anyone here knows where I can find good data on productivity growth in India, please let me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the main issue here really boils down to productivity growth and what it really is. Population (and workforce) growth is fairly high and stable; and though it influences the trend rate quite a bit (as Edward notes), it is fairly predictable. I think our workforce has been growing at about a 2% rate or so - which would imply a trend productivity growth rate of 4.5% if Shah&#8217;s/Economist&#8217;s 6.5% rate is to be believed.</p>
<p>My guess is that this number is probably higher - perhaps around 6%. This would still mean that todays 9.2% is &#8220;inflationary&#8221; - but not by terribly much. If anyone here knows where I can find good data on productivity growth in India, please let me know.</p>
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		<title>By: Abhishek Nair</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50434</link>
		<dc:creator>Abhishek Nair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://indianeconomy.org/2006/11/29/sizzling-or-just-right/#comment-50434</guid>
		<description>9.2% Growth in Q2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>9.2% Growth in Q2</p>
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