Comments on: A Brief Introduction To RISC — Rural Infrastructure & Services Commons http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/ Issues & insights Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:05:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: S.A.Rahim http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-246406 S.A.Rahim Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:11:46 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-246406 RISC is a fine proposal and with some more modification based on the socio-political situations and infrastructural availbility and conceptual level performance and statusquo,the theme can be worked out. We were not able to work out a system for the Rural India and that is forcing the farmers to commit suicide,rural atrisans,weavers all leading vexed life. The floating of this idea is highly appraciative and time has come for a proper plan for our 600,000 villages. S.A.Rahim Chairman PEN India email:penindia.org@gmail.com RISC is a fine proposal and with some more modification based on the socio-political situations and infrastructural availbility and conceptual level performance and statusquo,the theme can be worked out.

We were not able to work out a system for the Rural India and that is forcing the farmers to commit suicide,rural atrisans,weavers all leading vexed life.
The floating of this idea is highly appraciative and time has come for a proper plan for our 600,000 villages.

S.A.Rahim
Chairman
PEN India
email:penindia.org@gmail.com

]]> By: UDAYAKUMAR KOLLIMATH http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-231791 UDAYAKUMAR KOLLIMATH Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:58:48 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-231791 The article on the concept RISC to me appears very real solution. The bureucrats play foul play. As I am working in a project assisted by world bank where community plays a key role, I find three weakness: 1. The presence of bureaucrats who do not any work without money. 2. NON GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS which are very weak qualitatively. 3. Poor wages for people working the sector that does not encourage social workers to work in the villages. The article on the concept RISC to me appears very real solution. The bureucrats play foul play. As I am working in a project assisted by world bank where community plays a key role, I find three weakness:
1. The presence of bureaucrats who do not any work without money.
2. NON GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS which are very weak qualitatively.
3. Poor wages for people working the sector that does not encourage social workers to work in the villages.

]]> By: thecupgr http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-207412 thecupgr Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:11:49 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-207412 The idea sounds like a blue copy of China's experiment in 1960s when the government tried to mobilize rural population to aggregated towns, which of course failed because it was not feasible to execute such a plan in a grand scale. Doubt this will work in India today. Insetad, just focus on building infrastructures with a national plan and then cities will form naturally and quickly. Keep things simple. A nation like India's size, each section may need a different development model, trying to find a cure-all formula will be a tough sell. The idea sounds like a blue copy of China’s experiment in 1960s when the government tried to mobilize rural population to aggregated towns, which of course failed because it was not feasible to execute such a plan in a grand scale. Doubt this will work in India today.

Insetad, just focus on building infrastructures with a national plan and then cities will form naturally and quickly. Keep things simple. A nation like India’s size, each section may need a different development model, trying to find a cure-all formula will be a tough sell.

]]> By: karnic http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-203155 karnic Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:24:34 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-203155 The contribution of agriculture sector to GDP is grossly and wantonly misrepresented to keep the budgetary allocation to agri-sector at bare minimum. It needs a relook. Contribution from agriculture and allied activites like procesing, markets, transport, and so on to clubed to arrive at a correct figure which defenitely be more than the any other sector individually or combined. The contribution of agriculture sector to GDP is grossly and wantonly misrepresented to keep the budgetary allocation to agri-sector at bare minimum. It needs a relook. Contribution from agriculture and allied activites like procesing, markets, transport, and so on to clubed to arrive at a correct figure which defenitely be more than the any other sector individually or combined.

]]> By: smriti.com » Can India afford its villages? http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-156414 smriti.com » Can India afford its villages? Thu, 03 May 2007 08:33:16 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-156414 [...] However, an earlier post on the Indian Economy blog suggests an alternative way to fix this without giving up on the villages: Given that rural populations are very poor, it is reasonable to expect that the aggregate demand of a single village for any single service will be very low. However, the aggregate demand for, say, a 100 villages for a single service could be significant. Aggregating the demand for many different kinds of services of the same 100 villages would translate into lot of services. These services would require infrastructural inputs which can be commercially and sustainably supplied. Thus, a RISC would supply to the needs of about 100 surrounding villages. [...] […] However, an earlier post on the Indian Economy blog suggests an alternative way to fix this without giving up on the villages: Given that rural populations are very poor, it is reasonable to expect that the aggregate demand of a single village for any single service will be very low. However, the aggregate demand for, say, a 100 villages for a single service could be significant. Aggregating the demand for many different kinds of services of the same 100 villages would translate into lot of services. These services would require infrastructural inputs which can be commercially and sustainably supplied. Thus, a RISC would supply to the needs of about 100 surrounding villages. […]

]]> By: Abhijit Kumar http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-104779 Abhijit Kumar Thu, 15 Feb 2007 22:57:20 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-104779 If you are one of those people, who are sick and tired of listening to "India Shining Stories" despite the growth not bringing about basic changes you had expected to be associated with an economic powerhouse - you will probably like where Atanu Dey is going with this. Over the last few days I have been reading a lot about the Great Indian Corporate Shopping spree. What Lakshmi Mittal started last year with Arcelor, has seen several follow-up acts such as the Tata-Corus deal, Birla's Hinduja takeover of Novelis and the Hutch deal with Vodafone. I wondered how much of Atanu Dey's introduction to RISC (Rural Infrastructure & Services Commons) was relevant. I tried to understand this better. There is no doubt, that India is growing - and growing fast - the universally accepted eight percent GDP growth rate holds pretty good. But, how good is this economic growth, when more than half of children aged below five are undernourished or when one fifth of the entire population is chronically hungry. Dey also points out the recently released rankings in the Human Development Report, where our 126th rank (out of 177 counties) is nothing to be proud of. A quick look at the demographics explains this imbalance: The National sample survey organisation (NSSO) estimated that 22.15% of the population was living below the poverty line in 2004–2005, down from 51.3% in 1977–1978, and 26% in 2000. I for one question, whether this is any indication of India's overall upliftment (especially rural areas) or just migration of 'cheap human resource' from villages and towns to the IT/ITes based megapolis. My doubt is further strengthened when you see that while services and industry have grown at double digit figures, agriculture growth rate has dropped from 4.8% to 2%. More than three quarters of India depends on agriculture for livelihood, but the contribution of agriculture to India's GDP is less than one quarter. Precious little is being done to address plaguing problems in rural India such as availability of civic amenities, education and health & sanitation. This is further compounded by a high population growth rate. So what does this translate to - more pressure on crumbling urban infrastructure, which has led to greater congregation of population in 'hot pockets' of corporate India. This in turn, had led the politicians to shift their already trivial focus on rural matters, by addressing matters concerning corporations, city development and infrastructure. There is absolutely no incentive for either the poitician to be concerned about the rural population, or for the people to participate in upliftment of villages. The Discovery channel documentary on Thomas Friedman (Pulitzer winning author of The world in flat), showed that within an hour's drive from India's star performer - Bangalore, there were villages with no educational system or health-sanitation facilities. I wonder, how the villages deeper inside the world's seventh largest country score on this scale. The politicians with schemes such as Rural Employment Guarantee Bill (2005) and the Reservation Bill have resorted to controversial methods, that give scope to extreme corruption. I only read about initiatives done by NGOs and corporations that lay emphasis on their CSR. Moreover, a new controversy bogged my mind - shifting the BPO industry to villages on the fringe of urban centers. Satyam computers recently set up a BPO village in Andhra Pradesh. While, this practice may reap in profits for firms such as Satyam, who are struggling with infrastructure issues and high operating costs in traditional 'hubs', what is the payoff for rural India. The sustainability of such quasi-pro-rural initiatives depends largely on availability and willingness of 'cheaper skilled labor' in such rural belts. This also, if successful, will add to the wooing of potential agro-based laborers to cheaper service based jobs, which may disturb the long standing balance of our economic structure. So, this brings me back to the initial debate - how can India shining not be a misnomer, but a whole, meaningful phrase, that applies to every sphere of India. Is RISC the only method of moving ahead, for rural upliftment ? I think, given a corruption-free, closely monitored and explicitly public undertaking by the GOI, NGOs and other partners, this could be one of the more effective solutions. The main idea behind RISC, is to bring to the rural population services that are normally available only in large urban locations. It is virtual grouping of villages and small towns to provide a common platform for Infrastucture (I-level) and user Services (S-level). The economies of scale works well with this model, as spreading the costs of such services over the large population of clubbed villages and towns, makes per unit cost as low as possible, while extending quality resources such as public health programmes, education and training and manufacturing capabilities (such as factories, logistics, access to markets, trading information). We may be competing well in 2007. But to sustain a long term balanced growth, we cannot ignore the rural population with it's promising resources, reduced inefficiences and potential to decongest not just the metros, but also the economy on the whole. Lastly, with projects such as RISC, governance of India shifts from small units such as villages, to larger congregations in these RISC centers. Let India Shine. Now. References: Dey, Atanu and Vinod Khosla (2002), 'RISC – Rural Infrastructure and Services Commons'.Full document available at Deeshaa.com and at Khoslaventures.com; A Brief Introduction To RISC — Rural Infrastructure & Services Commons — Atanu Dey (http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#more-389 ) If you are one of those people, who are sick and tired of listening to “India Shining Stories” despite the growth not bringing about basic changes you had expected to be associated with an economic powerhouse - you will probably like where Atanu Dey is going with this.

Over the last few days I have been reading a lot about the Great Indian Corporate Shopping spree. What Lakshmi Mittal started last year with Arcelor, has seen several follow-up acts such as the Tata-Corus deal, Birla’s Hinduja takeover of Novelis and the Hutch deal with Vodafone. I wondered how much of Atanu Dey’s introduction to RISC (Rural Infrastructure & Services Commons) was relevant. I tried to understand this better. There is no doubt, that India is growing - and growing fast - the universally accepted eight percent GDP growth rate holds pretty good.

But, how good is this economic growth, when more than half of children aged below five are undernourished or when one fifth of the entire population is chronically hungry. Dey also points out the recently released rankings in the Human Development Report, where our 126th rank (out of 177 counties) is nothing to be proud of. A quick look at the demographics explains this imbalance:

The National sample survey organisation (NSSO) estimated that 22.15% of the population was living below the poverty line in 2004–2005, down from 51.3% in 1977–1978, and 26% in 2000. I for one question, whether this is any indication of India’s overall upliftment (especially rural areas) or just migration of ‘cheap human resource’ from villages and towns to the IT/ITes based megapolis.

My doubt is further strengthened when you see that while services and industry have grown at double digit figures, agriculture growth rate has dropped from 4.8% to 2%.

More than three quarters of India depends on agriculture for livelihood, but the contribution of agriculture to India’s GDP is less than one quarter.

Precious little is being done to address plaguing problems in rural India such as availability of civic amenities, education and health & sanitation. This is further compounded by a high population growth rate.

So what does this translate to - more pressure on crumbling urban infrastructure, which has led to greater congregation of population in ‘hot pockets’ of corporate India. This in turn, had led the politicians to shift their already trivial focus on rural matters, by addressing matters concerning corporations, city development and infrastructure. There is absolutely no incentive for either the poitician to be concerned about the rural population, or for the people to participate in upliftment of villages.

The Discovery channel documentary on Thomas Friedman (Pulitzer winning author of The world in flat), showed that within an hour’s drive from India’s star performer - Bangalore, there were villages with no educational system or health-sanitation facilities. I wonder, how the villages deeper inside the world’s seventh largest country score on this scale.

The politicians with schemes such as Rural Employment Guarantee Bill (2005) and the Reservation Bill have resorted to controversial methods, that give scope to extreme corruption. I only read about initiatives done by NGOs and corporations that lay emphasis on their CSR. Moreover, a new controversy bogged my mind - shifting the BPO industry to villages on the fringe of urban centers. Satyam computers recently set up a BPO village in Andhra Pradesh. While, this practice may reap in profits for firms such as Satyam, who are struggling with infrastructure issues and high operating costs in traditional ‘hubs’, what is the payoff for rural India. The sustainability of such quasi-pro-rural initiatives depends largely on availability and willingness of ‘cheaper skilled labor’ in such rural belts. This also, if successful, will add to the wooing of potential agro-based laborers to cheaper service based jobs, which may disturb the long standing balance of our economic structure.

So, this brings me back to the initial debate - how can India shining not be a misnomer, but a whole, meaningful phrase, that applies to every sphere of India. Is RISC the only method of moving ahead, for rural upliftment ? I think, given a corruption-free, closely monitored and explicitly public undertaking by the GOI, NGOs and other partners, this could be one of the more effective solutions. The main idea behind RISC, is to bring to the rural population services that are normally available only in large urban locations. It is virtual grouping of villages and small towns to provide a common platform for Infrastucture (I-level) and user Services (S-level). The economies of scale works well with this model, as spreading the costs of such services over the large population of clubbed villages and towns, makes per unit cost as low as possible, while extending quality resources such as public health programmes, education and training and manufacturing capabilities (such as factories, logistics, access to markets, trading information).

We may be competing well in 2007. But to sustain a long term balanced growth, we cannot ignore the rural population with it’s promising resources, reduced inefficiences and potential to decongest not just the metros, but also the economy on the whole. Lastly, with projects such as RISC, governance of India shifts from small units such as villages, to larger congregations in these RISC centers. Let India Shine. Now.

References: Dey, Atanu and Vinod Khosla (2002), ‘RISC – Rural Infrastructure and Services Commons’.Full document available at Deeshaa.com and at Khoslaventures.com; A Brief Introduction To RISC — Rural Infrastructure & Services Commons — Atanu Dey (http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#more-389 )

]]> By: Arvind Ashok http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-100634 Arvind Ashok Thu, 08 Feb 2007 02:45:31 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-100634 Hello, Your theory sounds really neat. But wouldn't a bottom-up strategy be a better idea, especially in a country like ours. With a government that takes too much time, another top-down solution seems to be missing the point. I do not mean to be disrespectful or rude, I am merely trying to learn. I am a Masters student at Indiana University, and I have been researching ICT projects which are supposedly a boon, especially in rural areas. And while this is a digression, I do want to make my point. Dumping technology on them (indian villagers for example) is nowhere close to a good idea, and it is pretty much a cop-out. But a lot of people seem to be doing this, and maybe some ideas work, but that is pure luck. What is needed is a people-based approach, and many miss the point. If anyone is interested in knowing more about my research, I am welcome to discuss this. Most of the great ideas around the world are bottom-up, and this is due to a variety of factors. Of course, there are some exceptions. And with your RISC being the base around which a city needs to form seems to be a very callous idea. Tradition and cultures, long ones, are part of these villages. We should ensure that people continue to live in them, following that and maintaining the cultural fabric of their place. This can be done by not revamping their entire way of life. Digital artifacts can reinforce their lives, not the other way around. What is needed is good design, and it needs good designers. I sincerely hope that you have an inter-disciplinary team designing this, and not a single perspective or like-minded ones. Again, I am not being disrespectful, but based on what I have read, I see aspects of bad design which have been repeated in many cases and I think you are missing the point. And if people like you who can make a difference miss the point, it does not bode well. This is my humble opinion, and I would love to initiate a dialog. And of course, I could be wrong about this, but I dont think so. Hello,
Your theory sounds really neat. But wouldn’t a bottom-up strategy be a better idea, especially in a country like ours. With a government that takes too much time, another top-down solution seems to be missing the point. I do not mean to be disrespectful or rude, I am merely trying to learn. I am a Masters student at Indiana University, and I have been researching ICT projects which are supposedly a boon, especially in rural areas. And while this is a digression, I do want to make my point. Dumping technology on them (indian villagers for example) is nowhere close to a good idea, and it is pretty much a cop-out. But a lot of people seem to be doing this, and maybe some ideas work, but that is pure luck. What is needed is a people-based approach, and many miss the point. If anyone is interested in knowing more about my research, I am welcome to discuss this. Most of the great ideas around the world are bottom-up, and this is due to a variety of factors. Of course, there are some exceptions.
And with your RISC being the base around which a city needs to form seems to be a very callous idea. Tradition and cultures, long ones, are part of these villages. We should ensure that people continue to live in them, following that and maintaining the cultural fabric of their place. This can be done by not revamping their entire way of life. Digital artifacts can reinforce their lives, not the other way around. What is needed is good design, and it needs good designers. I sincerely hope that you have an inter-disciplinary team designing this, and not a single perspective or like-minded ones. Again, I am not being disrespectful, but based on what I have read, I see aspects of bad design which have been repeated in many cases and I think you are missing the point. And if people like you who can make a difference miss the point, it does not bode well.
This is my humble opinion, and I would love to initiate a dialog. And of course, I could be wrong about this, but I dont think so.

]]> By: Kiran Varanasi http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-96934 Kiran Varanasi Fri, 02 Feb 2007 13:05:44 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-96934 Hi Atanu This is an idea whose time has come. Improving the employability of the rural population is the most important problem that should be occupying the parliament, but Indian response has so far been extremely stupid and slow. I have a question about your misgivings about not using the existant infrastructure for the RISC idea. Isn't it cheaper/quicker to locate the RISC outlets in the minor towns to begin with ? Apart from the applications that you have outlined, I also recommend a new one - to consider providing CD-burning facility for downloaded educational materials for use in private schools. Hi Atanu
This is an idea whose time has come. Improving the employability of the rural population is the most important problem that should be occupying the parliament, but Indian response has so far been extremely stupid and slow.

I have a question about your misgivings about not using the existant infrastructure for the RISC idea. Isn’t it cheaper/quicker to locate the RISC outlets in the minor towns to begin with ?

Apart from the applications that you have outlined, I also recommend a new one - to consider providing CD-burning facility for downloaded educational materials for use in private schools.

]]> By: Atanu Dey http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-93493 Atanu Dey Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:41:57 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-93493 Alphie, I think that the "Non Sequitur Competition of 2006" is over. Perhaps you could send your entries in the next time the competition is announced. You will surely win. Best regards. Atanu PS: I wonder about your handle "Alphie." Comes from "Alf" the US sitcom, does it? Alphie, I think that the “Non Sequitur Competition of 2006″ is over. Perhaps you could send your entries in the next time the competition is announced. You will surely win. Best regards.

Atanu

PS: I wonder about your handle “Alphie.” Comes from “Alf” the US sitcom, does it?

]]> By: alphie http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-93375 alphie Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:57:15 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/01/23/a-brief-introduction-to-risc-rural-infrastructure-services-commons/#comment-93375 Atanu, Sorry if I misunderstood your goal. I looked over the Deeshaa website and found this description of RISC: "It essentially acts as a catalyst that starts off a virtuous cycle of introducing efficient modern technology to improve productivity that increases incomes and thus the ability of users to pay for the services, and so on." The best way to improve the productivity of rural farms is to get rid of all the rural farmers and replace them with a tractor... Atanu,

Sorry if I misunderstood your goal. I looked over the Deeshaa website and found this description of RISC:

“It essentially acts as a catalyst that starts off a virtuous cycle of introducing efficient modern technology to improve productivity that increases incomes and thus the ability of users to pay for the services, and so on.”

The best way to improve the productivity of rural farms is to get rid of all the rural farmers and replace them with a tractor…

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