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	<title>Comments on: The Indian Elephant</title>
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	<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/</link>
	<description>Issues &#38; insights</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: christophe</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-109628</link>
		<dc:creator>christophe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-109628</guid>
		<description>Atenu, I like your distinction between production and employment. I believe both counts. Production is what matters for wealth but employment matters too for structuring people mind. One man ability to create wealth depends of his skills, specialisation. He will not produce in the future if he has no been working before.

Another point, i believe that the buzz about the next superpower makes no sense. While the following link is too pessimistic (written during cold war) http://www.umsl.edu/~rkeel/280/class/gregtd.html, he has an excellent insight. In today world, power is not in political organisation but in technology. Nuclear fusion is the today superpower, not the US. It is mobile phone that are enabling many indians to get access to information. They would be less outsourcing in China without progress in communication made over the last 20 years. While political organisation are still important, they are loosing grips everywhere around the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atenu, I like your distinction between production and employment. I believe both counts. Production is what matters for wealth but employment matters too for structuring people mind. One man ability to create wealth depends of his skills, specialisation. He will not produce in the future if he has no been working before.</p>
<p>Another point, i believe that the buzz about the next superpower makes no sense. While the following link is too pessimistic (written during cold war) <a href="http://www.umsl.edu/~rkeel/280/class/gregtd.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.umsl.edu/~rkeel/280/class/gregtd.html</a>, he has an excellent insight. In today world, power is not in political organisation but in technology. Nuclear fusion is the today superpower, not the US. It is mobile phone that are enabling many indians to get access to information. They would be less outsourcing in China without progress in communication made over the last 20 years. While political organisation are still important, they are loosing grips everywhere around the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Sriram</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-108741</link>
		<dc:creator>Sriram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-108741</guid>
		<description>I found this article very interesting:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16959219/site/newsweek/

I would like to hear Mr. Atanu Dey's comments regarding developments such as this one that emphasize on low cost solutions to grand scale problems in context to the Indian economy and social sector.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found this article very interesting:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16959219/site/newsweek/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16959219/site/newsweek/</a></p>
<p>I would like to hear Mr. Atanu Dey&#8217;s comments regarding developments such as this one that emphasize on low cost solutions to grand scale problems in context to the Indian economy and social sector.</p>
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		<title>By: con man</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103564</link>
		<dc:creator>con man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103564</guid>
		<description>"To get a better understanding of an elephant we have to walk around the elephant,of course,and integrate the various localized partial descriptions in our mind's eye"
This is from american diplomacy.

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/2006/0406/will/williamson_india.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To get a better understanding of an elephant we have to walk around the elephant,of course,and integrate the various localized partial descriptions in our mind&#8217;s eye&#8221;<br />
This is from american diplomacy.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/2006/0406/will/williamson_india.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/2006/0406/will/williamson_india.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sudeep</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103540</link>
		<dc:creator>Sudeep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103540</guid>
		<description>Vijay

I will advise you to watch the following links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHhdNEKwN50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VVa_YrpMpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pizaZo6nUc

They are clips from a talk by Hans Rosling, a famous economist with a very different style of presenting economic figures. The talk focuses on economies of the developing world, watch the India related data.

As an aside, its pretty gripping content for an economy lecture, perhaps the bloggers will consider making these links sticky ? :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vijay</p>
<p>I will advise you to watch the following links:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHhdNEKwN50" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHhdNEKwN50</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VVa_YrpMpk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VVa_YrpMpk</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pizaZo6nUc" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pizaZo6nUc</a></p>
<p>They are clips from a talk by Hans Rosling, a famous economist with a very different style of presenting economic figures. The talk focuses on economies of the developing world, watch the India related data.</p>
<p>As an aside, its pretty gripping content for an economy lecture, perhaps the bloggers will consider making these links sticky ? :-)</p>
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		<title>By: vijay kurhade</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103519</link>
		<dc:creator>vijay kurhade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103519</guid>
		<description>Yes agree, media is calling rising of india, india coming and so on. Few things defnitely are moving on track but there are n no of basic issues which most of western and indian media is overlooking to make good bucks on there ivestments.

electricity is still a big problem
drinking water, a big problem
population, momentarily looks good long run is disaster
% of childs opting out of school, big future problem
inflation, common man is grinded in it and is a big issue
health systems and qaulity of life, does it even exist for 50% or so ppl

just because few ppl make billions or millions will nver quality we as india in developed nations league.

imagine western economies slowing down or crashing, we will be flat on our stomach so
we are yet not there, we still have many miles before we can say we have rised on horizon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes agree, media is calling rising of india, india coming and so on. Few things defnitely are moving on track but there are n no of basic issues which most of western and indian media is overlooking to make good bucks on there ivestments.</p>
<p>electricity is still a big problem<br />
drinking water, a big problem<br />
population, momentarily looks good long run is disaster<br />
% of childs opting out of school, big future problem<br />
inflation, common man is grinded in it and is a big issue<br />
health systems and qaulity of life, does it even exist for 50% or so ppl</p>
<p>just because few ppl make billions or millions will nver quality we as india in developed nations league.</p>
<p>imagine western economies slowing down or crashing, we will be flat on our stomach so<br />
we are yet not there, we still have many miles before we can say we have rised on horizon.</p>
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		<title>By: Atanu Dey</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103466</link>
		<dc:creator>Atanu Dey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103466</guid>
		<description>andiron, I submit that it is not the economists that are confused, you are confused by the choice that you have to make as to which set of economists you should believe given that they have different theories to which they subscribe collectively but as individuals, the economists are fairly clear about where they stand.

Allow me an imperfect analogy. In a poll, when asked about the type of cuisine they prefer, the members of a well-known gourmet club responded: 20% Chinese, 18% French, 28% Indian, 34% English (incredible, I know.) Now I am confused about what cuisine I should go for seeing that these guys are not unanimous on their preference. But I am sure that the 34% who prefer English food are not confused about what sort of food they dig.

(I can't believe I am having this discussion.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>andiron, I submit that it is not the economists that are confused, you are confused by the choice that you have to make as to which set of economists you should believe given that they have different theories to which they subscribe collectively but as individuals, the economists are fairly clear about where they stand.</p>
<p>Allow me an imperfect analogy. In a poll, when asked about the type of cuisine they prefer, the members of a well-known gourmet club responded: 20% Chinese, 18% French, 28% Indian, 34% English (incredible, I know.) Now I am confused about what cuisine I should go for seeing that these guys are not unanimous on their preference. But I am sure that the 34% who prefer English food are not confused about what sort of food they dig.</p>
<p>(I can&#8217;t believe I am having this discussion.)</p>
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		<title>By: andiron</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103455</link>
		<dc:creator>andiron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103455</guid>
		<description>Atanu:

all i point to is polling top economists about an issue and their voting patterns leads me to nothing (such as 45% yes, 47% no,8% don't know )

if economists (to a large percentage) cannot agree on variety of economic issues (hey man,given the inputs plug it in CAPM model??) what conclusions a layman like me is supposed to draw?

now some may jump on glabalization issue as a parallel..but that would be a true disservice to the economists' profession..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atanu:</p>
<p>all i point to is polling top economists about an issue and their voting patterns leads me to nothing (such as 45% yes, 47% no,8% don&#8217;t know )</p>
<p>if economists (to a large percentage) cannot agree on variety of economic issues (hey man,given the inputs plug it in CAPM model??) what conclusions a layman like me is supposed to draw?</p>
<p>now some may jump on glabalization issue as a parallel..but that would be a true disservice to the economists&#8217; profession..</p>
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		<title>By: Atanu Dey</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103375</link>
		<dc:creator>Atanu Dey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103375</guid>
		<description>That's an interesting aside, andiron. "(I am not an economist but an investor..hence in a happy position to be not confused by webs of theories)" Implying that economists are a confused lot about matters that they study.

There is much satisfaction in the belief that the experts with all their years of studying are somehow less equipped to comprehend what matters. Creationists, for example, take much delight in pointing out the fact that evolutionary biologists argue amongst themselves, and use that professional disagreement as proof positive that creationism must be right. What they miss that the "webs of theories" that the biologists spin are not meant to hold up the core ideas of Darwinian evolution; the core ideas are not in dispute; the arguments are about details which do not alter the basic logic. 

Yes, as an investor you really don't need to pay attention to the nitpicky details that professional economists concern themselves with. But to imply that they are confused about the essentials is not very reasonable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting aside, andiron. &#8220;(I am not an economist but an investor..hence in a happy position to be not confused by webs of theories)&#8221; Implying that economists are a confused lot about matters that they study.</p>
<p>There is much satisfaction in the belief that the experts with all their years of studying are somehow less equipped to comprehend what matters. Creationists, for example, take much delight in pointing out the fact that evolutionary biologists argue amongst themselves, and use that professional disagreement as proof positive that creationism must be right. What they miss that the &#8220;webs of theories&#8221; that the biologists spin are not meant to hold up the core ideas of Darwinian evolution; the core ideas are not in dispute; the arguments are about details which do not alter the basic logic. </p>
<p>Yes, as an investor you really don&#8217;t need to pay attention to the nitpicky details that professional economists concern themselves with. But to imply that they are confused about the essentials is not very reasonable.</p>
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		<title>By: andiron</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103012</link>
		<dc:creator>andiron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-103012</guid>
		<description>now that in some premature bout of hurrays, we see the top indian businesses rolling over each other to make foreign acquisitions, the question remains if it is an act like "fools rush where angels fear to tread"..

w/ greenspan led global liquidity causing such worldwide act of chutzpah (a la chavez)...commodity bubble is deemed a fundamental change in the world economy what with millions of Chittalurus guzzling away in their Enfields if not in sub-lac cars(disregarding the fact that lumber prices in US have collapsed..cement has come down..so has copper from its perch)

Will it be  an act of bravado and downfall for Mittal/Tata/Birla (who else now, Goenka/Kirloskar?)--as they buy commodities based companies at super inflated prices (w/their shares risen considerably, courtesy fascination for emerging markets in US/Europe, since 2003)-- only time will tell..

we have seen this script before....
Fasten your belts folks as the next act will be far more interesting and challenging/wrenching than what we have just seen..

(I am not an economist but an investor..hence in a happy position to be not confused by webs of theories)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>now that in some premature bout of hurrays, we see the top indian businesses rolling over each other to make foreign acquisitions, the question remains if it is an act like &#8220;fools rush where angels fear to tread&#8221;..</p>
<p>w/ greenspan led global liquidity causing such worldwide act of chutzpah (a la chavez)&#8230;commodity bubble is deemed a fundamental change in the world economy what with millions of Chittalurus guzzling away in their Enfields if not in sub-lac cars(disregarding the fact that lumber prices in US have collapsed..cement has come down..so has copper from its perch)</p>
<p>Will it be  an act of bravado and downfall for Mittal/Tata/Birla (who else now, Goenka/Kirloskar?)&#8211;as they buy commodities based companies at super inflated prices (w/their shares risen considerably, courtesy fascination for emerging markets in US/Europe, since 2003)&#8211; only time will tell..</p>
<p>we have seen this script before&#8230;.<br />
Fasten your belts folks as the next act will be far more interesting and challenging/wrenching than what we have just seen..</p>
<p>(I am not an economist but an investor..hence in a happy position to be not confused by webs of theories)</p>
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		<title>By: Chandra</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-102999</link>
		<dc:creator>Chandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/2007/02/10/the-indian-elephant/#comment-102999</guid>
		<description>Yin

Yes, literacy is calculated with respect to being able to read and write your mother tongue and not English. Having said that most schools offer to teach you 3 or 2 languages- Mother Tongue/ English and Hindi. The medium for education is either the local language or English. My estimation is that 30% of our schools have Hindi (National language) as a medium for education, another 50% have local languages and about 20% have English as medium for education.

I dont think the 3 or 2 language forumla are causes for concern. 
The problem in our schools are fairly simple

a. Inadequate resources (The central Govt spent just 4 billion dollars for primary education for a population of about 70-80 million children as opposed to spending 30 Billion on defence)

Of course Individual state Governments too spend some money and that could add up to another 2-3 billion dollars

b. Ineffective delivery

Teachers are not trained or donot turn up to teach

c. Improper structures

Parental and community involvement is not very high across most schools. Implies community resources and monitoring are unavailable in most schools. Hvaing said that some initiatives of involving community have proven to be successful and these schools have done really well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yin</p>
<p>Yes, literacy is calculated with respect to being able to read and write your mother tongue and not English. Having said that most schools offer to teach you 3 or 2 languages- Mother Tongue/ English and Hindi. The medium for education is either the local language or English. My estimation is that 30% of our schools have Hindi (National language) as a medium for education, another 50% have local languages and about 20% have English as medium for education.</p>
<p>I dont think the 3 or 2 language forumla are causes for concern.<br />
The problem in our schools are fairly simple</p>
<p>a. Inadequate resources (The central Govt spent just 4 billion dollars for primary education for a population of about 70-80 million children as opposed to spending 30 Billion on defence)</p>
<p>Of course Individual state Governments too spend some money and that could add up to another 2-3 billion dollars</p>
<p>b. Ineffective delivery</p>
<p>Teachers are not trained or donot turn up to teach</p>
<p>c. Improper structures</p>
<p>Parental and community involvement is not very high across most schools. Implies community resources and monitoring are unavailable in most schools. Hvaing said that some initiatives of involving community have proven to be successful and these schools have done really well.</p>
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