Comments on: Fanatics and Development http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/ Issues & insights Sun, 12 Oct 2008 11:39:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Manish Saxena http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-265491 Manish Saxena Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:42:05 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-265491 Atanu's post is typical of shallow understanding of right wing intellectuals about complexities of human life. The funny part is that his analysis does not even pass the test for his most hated enemy viz. Islam. Whatever else you may call Islamic history, it is no way culturally poor. Atanu’s post is typical of shallow understanding of right wing intellectuals about complexities of human life. The funny part is that his analysis does not even pass the test for his most hated enemy viz. Islam. Whatever else you may call Islamic history, it is no way culturally poor.

]]> By: Graham Stewart http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-145531 Graham Stewart Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:52:11 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-145531 A serious question because I am interested in education. What would you educate the people on and how would you do it? A serious question because I am interested in education.

What would you educate the people on and how would you do it?

]]> By: Denis O'Leary http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-142698 Denis O'Leary Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:21:42 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-142698 This is very simplistic reasonong for a very complicated problem. This is very simplistic reasonong for a very complicated problem.

]]> By: Vishaan http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-141270 Vishaan Fri, 06 Apr 2007 19:17:08 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-141270 This is such simple reasoning I don't even know where to begin. Atanu, you are buddhist? Being of a buddhist background myself (Sri Lankan), I will say that after reading your post here and your comments and post on your site, I suggest you be well embarrassed with the manner you treat your readers and critics. Your intolerance is similar to those you decry and your belligerence is antithetical to your post. If you believe that monothiesm is what propagated invaders to wreak havoc in India, then you may well study a more objective history text. They justified their invasion and exploitation with religion; it didn't fuel it. Nor did many of their architects believe it. Religion typically serves as the justification...it hides the more callous view that money and influence are primary interests. Do you believe anyone will invade a country only to grow poor? I will agree that economic prosperity can hide one's most radical inclinations. But there is a disconnect in your reasoning. Such WIDESPREAD fanaticism, not fanaticism itself, is relatively new. There are and have been many societies that have resisted fanaticism in spite of their poverty. What pushes SOME impoverished societies to accept fanaticism when they do is the degree and level of exploitation they are taught they are the victims of. Exploitation is now the principal cause of widespread fanaticism. It happens between countries, it happens in countries among the same people, and exploitation will continue to grow as long as wealth and power are increased with such rapidity and disparity. Of course I cannot explain all fanaticism. What about Malawi and Zimbabwe? Your malevolent monothiests rarely take up arms there. The fact is that exploitation can only explain so much. There are incredible cultural forces at play that I am ignorant of and that you are too orotund to admit to. Have you any experience with the more radical elements within this world? Your reasoning speaks of none. This is such simple reasoning I don’t even know where to begin. Atanu, you are buddhist? Being of a buddhist background myself (Sri Lankan), I will say that after reading your post here and your comments and post on your site, I suggest you be well embarrassed with the manner you treat your readers and critics. Your intolerance is similar to those you decry and your belligerence is antithetical to your post.
If you believe that monothiesm is what propagated invaders to wreak havoc in India, then you may well study a more objective history text. They justified their invasion and exploitation with religion; it didn’t fuel it. Nor did many of their architects believe it. Religion typically serves as the justification…it hides the more callous view that money and influence are primary interests. Do you believe anyone will invade a country only to grow poor?
I will agree that economic prosperity can hide one’s most radical inclinations. But there is a disconnect in your reasoning. Such WIDESPREAD fanaticism, not fanaticism itself, is relatively new. There are and have been many societies that have resisted fanaticism in spite of their poverty. What pushes SOME impoverished societies to accept fanaticism when they do is the degree and level of exploitation they are taught they are the victims of. Exploitation is now the principal cause of widespread fanaticism. It happens between countries, it happens in countries among the same people, and exploitation will continue to grow as long as wealth and power are increased with such rapidity and disparity. Of course I cannot explain all fanaticism. What about Malawi and Zimbabwe? Your malevolent monothiests rarely take up arms there. The fact is that exploitation can only explain so much. There are incredible cultural forces at play that I am ignorant of and that you are too orotund to admit to.
Have you any experience with the more radical elements within this world? Your reasoning speaks of none.

]]> By: Niranjan http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-134932 Niranjan Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:16:49 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-134932 I do think it is lack of education and wealth is the cause of Idol worship. And of course the system plays a major part. Just think that for a country of billion, there are 11 sports heroes. We should stop playing international games (except probably the world cup) and promote the Cricket league (like the European/us clubs). Those cricket league should permit players from all over the world. Then we would be talking about a game between Chennai (with players from Mumbai) Vs Mumbai (with players from Chennai). Those teams will go to all lengths to find the talent to win. The free market competition will eliminate the worst (corruption and cronyism) and the true talent will win. The Media will not concentrate on just 11 players and instead every town will have 11 guys and the cricket money would be split up evenly. But I know the current system would fight all the way to keep the current system. I do think it is lack of education and wealth is the cause of Idol worship. And of course the system plays a major part.

Just think that for a country of billion, there are 11 sports heroes. We should stop playing international games (except probably the world cup) and promote the Cricket league (like the European/us clubs). Those cricket league should permit players from all over the world. Then we would be talking about a game between Chennai (with players from Mumbai) Vs Mumbai (with players from Chennai). Those teams will go to all lengths to find the talent to win. The free market competition will eliminate the worst (corruption and cronyism) and the true talent will win. The Media will not concentrate on just 11 players and instead every town will have 11 guys and the cricket money would be split up evenly. But I know the current system would fight all the way to keep the current system.

]]> By: K.R.Athiyaman http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-133589 K.R.Athiyaman Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:19:31 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-133589 and reg Bangalore riots over Rajkumar's death ; there is a vested interst lobby, whipping up orgamised terror thru paid merceneris. they have political ambitions and also settle personal scores during such riots... Former Railway mnister Jaffer Sherief used a meeting in Bangalore to condemn the execution of Saddam Husein, to whip up communal frenzy to consloidate his muslim vote banks. BJP uses VHP for same. there are no spontaneous riots. carefully calculated strategies to acheive narrow partisan ends. Like the Ram temple movement to consolidate the hindu vote bank in the 90s. Bal thankray of shiv Sena has defined Hindutva accurately : "Hindutva means all Hindus should always vote for BJP & Co only.." and reg Bangalore riots over Rajkumar’s death ; there is a vested
interst lobby, whipping up orgamised terror thru paid merceneris.
they have political ambitions and also settle personal scores
during such riots…

Former Railway mnister Jaffer Sherief used a meeting in Bangalore to condemn the execution of Saddam Husein, to whip up communal frenzy
to consloidate his muslim vote banks. BJP uses VHP for same.
there are no spontaneous riots. carefully calculated strategies to
acheive narrow partisan ends. Like the Ram temple movement to consolidate the hindu vote bank in the 90s.

Bal thankray of shiv Sena has defined Hindutva accurately :
“Hindutva means all Hindus should always vote for BJP & Co only..”

]]> By: K.R.Athiyaman http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-133580 K.R.Athiyaman Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:31:18 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-133580 In Hinduisim, caste conflicts and oppression exists even though hinduisim is not monotheistic. Castesism is a product of feudal oppression. Turkey, a nation of muslims is far more liberal and forward looking with no traces of jihadi elements. And in Malayasia and Singapore, many religions co-exist peacefully. It is obvious that such matters and motives are very complex and vary with local conditions and values.. It is my guess that, if and when Palestine and Kashmir issue gets relsoved peacefully and fairly and if US and Israel are rational and fair in their foreign polices, this current phase of islaimic jihadis will be reduced drastically. A war for national liberation and against oppression of basic rights will always exist whenever there is oppression by the might. And in Sudan, the genocide is basically a drive for better lands and pasture, as the lands of Arabic people has turned infertile and dry, while the blacks have better lands. So greed is also an element cloaked amidst rhetotic. I guess the middle east violence and jihadisim will die in the comming century, when petroloeum reserves get exhausted and the Arabs loose their strategic and economic importance. Cricket : as huge stakes are invloved, what if betting is legalised and online ? can it be led out in the open, so everyone is aware of the bids and trends. And BCCI is mired in corruption and cronyism. So why not abolish it and privatise it : let there be hundreds of private teams (like Reliance team, Tata team, etc) and there should be a knock-out match every year among the teams. the winning team shall be the national team for 2 years. And players can move to teams paying them best. Like in US basket ball teams or football clubs in europe. Free market competition will eliminate the worst and let the best man/team win... In Hinduisim, caste conflicts and oppression exists even though
hinduisim is not monotheistic. Castesism is a product of feudal
oppression. Turkey, a nation of muslims is far more liberal and
forward looking with no traces of jihadi elements. And in Malayasia
and Singapore, many religions co-exist peacefully. It is obvious
that such matters and motives are very complex and vary with local
conditions and values..

It is my guess that, if and when Palestine and Kashmir issue
gets relsoved peacefully and fairly and if US and Israel are rational
and fair in their foreign polices, this current phase of islaimic
jihadis will be reduced drastically. A war for national liberation
and against oppression of basic rights will always exist whenever there is oppression by the might. And in Sudan, the genocide is
basically a drive for better lands and pasture, as the lands of
Arabic people has turned infertile and dry, while the blacks have
better lands. So greed is also an element cloaked amidst rhetotic.
I guess the middle east violence and jihadisim will die in the comming
century, when petroloeum reserves get exhausted and the Arabs loose
their strategic and economic importance.

Cricket : as huge stakes are invloved, what if betting is legalised
and online ? can it be led out in the open, so everyone is aware of
the bids and trends.

And BCCI is mired in corruption and cronyism. So why not abolish it and privatise it : let there be hundreds of private teams (like Reliance team, Tata team, etc) and there should be a knock-out match every year among the teams. the winning team shall be the national team for 2 years. And players can move to teams paying them best. Like in US basket ball teams or football clubs in europe. Free market competition will eliminate the worst and let the best man/team win…

]]> By: Revathi http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-133565 Revathi Mon, 26 Mar 2007 07:50:46 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-133565 How come no one has evoked the great political parties that give hand outs to the poor in exchang for violent behaviour just to create a loyal vote bank? The recent statement by Rahul Gandhi is just an example of how desperate politicians can get to remain in power. What about the thousands of guys who blocked the traffic on the day that Saddam was hanged? Was it really a spontaneous relegious fervor? How come no one has evoked the great political parties that give hand outs to the poor in exchang for violent behaviour just to create a loyal vote bank? The recent statement by Rahul Gandhi is just an example of how desperate politicians can get to remain in power. What about the thousands of guys who blocked the traffic on the day that Saddam was hanged? Was it really a spontaneous relegious fervor?

]]> By: Nandan Desai http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-133548 Nandan Desai Mon, 26 Mar 2007 07:08:53 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-133548 You sure about that Sarat? We've got a "sunday congregation" fellow in the White House here. Of course, I'm not trying to argue against education - it should clearly be priority #1. Just don't expect it to completely solve religious fanaticism. Frankly, I think the sources of religious fanaticism are far more instrinsic - the diversity of religions, ethnicities...; the amount of natural resources available ("dutch disease") to buy off the people; the political system; socio-cultural antecedents; etc. It is unpleasant to acknowledge those factors because they are notoriously hard to change. Education is just one key to starting that process. Having a basic respect for the culture/religion/ideology of the people whom you are trying to change, perhaps, is another. You sure about that Sarat? We’ve got a “sunday congregation” fellow in the White House here. Of course, I’m not trying to argue against education - it should clearly be priority #1. Just don’t expect it to completely solve religious fanaticism.

Frankly, I think the sources of religious fanaticism are far more instrinsic - the diversity of religions, ethnicities…; the amount of natural resources available (”dutch disease”) to buy off the people; the political system; socio-cultural antecedents; etc.

It is unpleasant to acknowledge those factors because they are notoriously hard to change. Education is just one key to starting that process. Having a basic respect for the culture/religion/ideology of the people whom you are trying to change, perhaps, is another.

]]> By: Sarat http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-133344 Sarat Mon, 26 Mar 2007 01:16:16 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/03/24/fanatics-and-development/#comment-133344 Atanu wrote: "The key is education. Education inoculates the civilized person from the virus of fanaticism and despair. Education makes people productive and so stuff gets produced. When stuff gets produced, poverty is reduced. With material wealth, the necessary condition for development is satisfied. Educated people have a stake in the future and therefore have an interest in informing themselves about policies that are beneficial. They then make an informed choice among various leaders based on their policy prescriptions. This results in a peaceful and prosperous society." PERFECT! I didn't know where you were going with your rather cosmic, guru-like pontification in the first few paras, but you sure brought it home. If one compares the so-called advanced nations with, in politically correct speak, the "developing" nations, the only difference seems to be education and prosperity. Both societies have extremist philosophies in equal force. But the educated and prosperous society embraces its extremism through talk radio and Sunday congregations. The less educated and poor ones burn down their cities over cricket and movie idols. Free market capitalism, anyone? Atanu wrote: “The key is education. Education inoculates the civilized person from the virus of fanaticism and despair. Education makes people productive and so stuff gets produced. When stuff gets produced, poverty is reduced. With material wealth, the necessary condition for development is satisfied. Educated people have a stake in the future and therefore have an interest in informing themselves about policies that are beneficial. They then make an informed choice among various leaders based on their policy prescriptions. This results in a peaceful and prosperous society.”

PERFECT!

I didn’t know where you were going with your rather cosmic, guru-like pontification in the first few paras, but you sure brought it home.

If one compares the so-called advanced nations with, in politically correct speak, the “developing” nations, the only difference seems to be education and prosperity. Both societies have extremist philosophies in equal force. But the educated and prosperous society embraces its extremism through talk radio and Sunday congregations. The less educated and poor ones burn down their cities over cricket and movie idols.

Free market capitalism, anyone?

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