Comments on: Don’t Make It Affordable http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/ Issues & insights Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:14:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Amogh http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-158663 Amogh Thu, 10 May 2007 18:54:27 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-158663 That was a great piece of writing and I must I say you make a lot of sense. I recently started travelling frequently by volvos and mind you, though Im grateful for the price slashes, nowadays volvos really dont feel the same anymore...there are a lot more people who are standing and often during the rush hour, they end up becoming as crowded as any other bus. Not really worth the extra cash during those periods. That suggestion of yours to modify pushpaks is interesting. Ive travelled on such AC buses in Bombay and it does seem a viable option. But it might become TOO viable and volvos might end up becoming largely empty resulting in losses and volvos being taken off the road...what do you think? That was a great piece of writing and I must I say you make a lot of sense. I recently started travelling frequently by volvos and mind you, though Im grateful for the price slashes, nowadays volvos really dont feel the same anymore…there are a lot more people who are standing and often during the rush hour, they end up becoming as crowded as any other bus. Not really worth the extra cash during those periods.

That suggestion of yours to modify pushpaks is interesting. Ive travelled on such AC buses in Bombay and it does seem a viable option. But it might become TOO viable and volvos might end up becoming largely empty resulting in losses and volvos being taken off the road…what do you think?

]]> By: Such http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-156427 Such Thu, 03 May 2007 10:00:42 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-156427 “….the upper middle class doesn’t want to rub shoulders (both figuratively and literally) with the great Indian unwashed.” “sitting next to a laborer is not done.” “In other words, she is willing to pay more to keep out the common man. ” Seriously.. I dont think this reflects the mind of "upper middle class"!!..Its the general comfort of the journey that matters more.. Stuck hours in traffic sitting in your own car doesnt make life any simpler... As for the great indian unwashed.. Rules and monitoring methods should be in place to keep the buses clean and well maintained.. A few hours beside a labourer isnt going to hurt one much... afterall, I do believe we are decades out of the "untouchability" era... ! “….the upper middle class doesn’t want to rub shoulders (both figuratively and literally) with the great Indian unwashed.”
“sitting next to a laborer is not done.” “In other words, she is willing to pay more to keep out the common man. ”

Seriously.. I dont think this reflects the mind of “upper middle class”!!..Its the general comfort of the journey that matters more.. Stuck hours in traffic sitting in your own car doesnt make life any simpler… As for the great indian unwashed.. Rules and monitoring methods should be in place to keep the buses clean and well maintained.. A few hours beside a labourer isnt going to hurt one much… afterall, I do believe we are decades out of the “untouchability” era… !

]]> By: Anoop Saha http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155786 Anoop Saha Tue, 01 May 2007 05:45:48 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155786 "....the upper middle class doesn’t want to rub shoulders (both figuratively and literally) with the great Indian unwashed." "sitting next to a laborer is not done." "In other words, she is willing to pay more to keep out the common man. " Amazing!! Some points though. 1. BMTC is owned by public and its aim is to be beneficial to as large number of people as possible. 2. Roads are public. Every car that is on road is using public space for private comfort. Nothing wrong in it, but your car for 1 person is slowing down at least 50 people travelling in the bus. 3. Why should the government reward the car owners for increasing congestion on the road? Why not increase road taxes, have a dual mechanism for pricing of petrol, remove diesel subsidy for private consumption, levy congestion charges on car owners, have dedicated corridors for buses, etcetra? 4. Let's assume, Iam a labourer. And I say the same thing about the IT professional, that they should be devoid of availing public services, including roads. 5. Iam an IT professional and I travel extensively by bus and metro. “….the upper middle class doesn’t want to rub shoulders (both figuratively and literally) with the great Indian unwashed.”
“sitting next to a laborer is not done.” “In other words, she is willing to pay more to keep out the common man. ”

Amazing!! Some points though.

1. BMTC is owned by public and its aim is to be beneficial to as large number of people as possible.

2. Roads are public. Every car that is on road is using public space for private comfort. Nothing wrong in it, but your car for 1 person is slowing down at least 50 people travelling in the bus.

3. Why should the government reward the car owners for increasing congestion on the road? Why not increase road taxes, have a dual mechanism for pricing of petrol, remove diesel subsidy for private consumption, levy congestion charges on car owners, have dedicated corridors for buses, etcetra?

4. Let’s assume, Iam a labourer. And I say the same thing about the IT professional, that they should be devoid of availing public services, including roads.

5. Iam an IT professional and I travel extensively by bus and metro.

]]> By: Shefaly http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155688 Shefaly Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:53:49 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155688 A good transport policy is a seamless 'multi-modal transport policy'. An ideal system is to be found in Switzerland, where time-tables for trains are coordinated with those for buses, trams, boats and 48-degree trains. Since each link in the chain is reliable - definitely arrives, runs on time - and afforable, one can plan every journey from one's door step to the destination perfectly. The stops for the various modes of transport never require very long walks (5-10 min is deemed acceptable). The example of Delhi Metro cited in one comment above is great. The City is transformed by it! I was pleasantly surprised by it when I first used it in 2005. I am looking forward to its extension to the airport and using it on my future visits. Calcutta metro is very good too, clean, affordable, reliable. Alas it is very limited in its coverage and with no connections at either end of the metro, very inconvenient to use. The result? Crowded and unreliable buses, and many cars on the road. Bangalore on the other hand has got worse and worse since I lived there, about 12 years ago. Sadly. A good transport policy is a seamless ‘multi-modal transport policy’. An ideal system is to be found in Switzerland, where time-tables for trains are coordinated with those for buses, trams, boats and 48-degree trains. Since each link in the chain is reliable - definitely arrives, runs on time - and afforable, one can plan every journey from one’s door step to the destination perfectly. The stops for the various modes of transport never require very long walks (5-10 min is deemed acceptable).

The example of Delhi Metro cited in one comment above is great. The City is transformed by it! I was pleasantly surprised by it when I first used it in 2005. I am looking forward to its extension to the airport and using it on my future visits.

Calcutta metro is very good too, clean, affordable, reliable. Alas it is very limited in its coverage and with no connections at either end of the metro, very inconvenient to use. The result? Crowded and unreliable buses, and many cars on the road.

Bangalore on the other hand has got worse and worse since I lived there, about 12 years ago. Sadly.

]]> By: Krishworld Politics » Indian free market fundamentalists and Racism http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155628 Krishworld Politics » Indian free market fundamentalists and Racism Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:51:54 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155628 [...] http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/ [...] [...] http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/ [...]

]]> By: andiron http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155551 andiron Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:57:54 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155551 the logic expressed by the "autor" parallels what happens in 5-stars..an island of well-being amidst bengaloresque squalor, poverty and desperation.. however, viability of this remains a question.. Exclusive buses w/exclusive environment are out in the front in contrast to the closeted display of excesses evident in plush hotels and homes kept hidden by baniaesque zeal so as not to invite wrath from hurting Murugans... Of course, such hubris is often marked by peak of the cycle. the logic expressed by the “autor” parallels what happens in 5-stars..an island of well-being amidst bengaloresque squalor, poverty and desperation..
however, viability of this remains a question..
Exclusive buses w/exclusive environment are out in the front in contrast to the closeted display of excesses evident in plush hotels and homes kept hidden by baniaesque zeal so as not to invite wrath from hurting Murugans…
Of course, such hubris is often marked by peak of the cycle.

]]> By: alphie http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155510 alphie Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:21:47 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155510 I just finish a blog post on the top three U.S. hedge fund managers making enough money a day to be able to afford a half hour Soyuz spaceflight commute to Asia instead of wasting a day on a jet...and find this post. Two worlds indeed. I just finish a blog post on the top three U.S. hedge fund managers making enough money a day to be able to afford a half hour Soyuz spaceflight commute to Asia instead of wasting a day on a jet…and find this post.

Two worlds indeed.

]]> By: Chronicc http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155435 Chronicc Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:28:33 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155435 Urban City transportation has to be detailed, planned and in full co operation with other public/private organizations that have their commuter rail/bus/taxi etc in service. I see some folks raising issues about buses etc not arriving on time and or indefinite stops and or crowding of buses. These are prevailing issues in Indian cities, because there is no system in place. However, when there is a system in place, this is how it would work. I am going to use a real time example of a public transport system in place here in the Bay Area also known as the Silicon Valley in Sunny California. So the journey is from San Francisco to San Jose. My House is near San Francisco State University. 6:40 Am - Leave home, walk 4 blocks, about 8 minute walk to the Muni Station and or take the 6:35 am bus, a block away from my house, that drops me off at the Muni station in 5 minutes.. Muni is a light rail, San Francisco Municipal Transport Agency run Light Rail/Tram service. 6:55 Am - Board the Muni and travel to the Embarcadero Center in Downtown San Francisco. Travel time 30 mins 7:40 Am - Board the BART [Bay Area Rapid Transport] Metro rail to San Francisco Airport. Bart is A high speed Metro, which travels from San Francisco to South and East Bay Area. Travel time to the airport 35 mins. 8:35 Am - Board the Downtown San Jose CALTRAIN train, from the San Francisco Airport. Caltrain is another train public train service with services San Francisco to Gilroy, while having stops in multiple places, including San Jose. 9:00 Am - Arrive in San Jose Downtown. Take the VTA [Valley Transport Authority] bus or light rail to your next location The purpose of this was to demonstrate, how an actual system which combines multiple agencies, both public and private, work in perfect symphony on a daily basis. As you can clearly see, that multiple public/private Transport authorities work together to create a route plan for any possible location in San Francisco - San Jose Area. Btway a car ride from San Francisco to San Jose during peak hours is 1 Hour drive time, a total of about 50 miles. The timings of these light rails, metro and bus are done accordingly and in conjunction with each other. All these public/private agencies work out a yearly schedule. They also work out special schedules for days, when there is a sporting event, a political convention, a parade or celebration. Also, the Light Rail and the Metro while cutting and or crossing through city streets have automatic green signals for them, so that they never get stuck in any kind of traffic jams, this keeps them on time all the time. On top of all this, if there is any sort of delay and or accident and or power cut on the Metro Line for example, the chain of commands and information is passed on immediately to all the agencies, including public media broadcastings, both Radio and Local news channels. This is exactly how a system would also work in any Indian city as well. A commuter network or Metro, Light Rail, Bus and private company buses. The company or "private luxury" bus in this situation can ferry employees from a big/central "Bus Stop" of that particular region, to the individual company couple miles away. Urban City transportation has to be detailed, planned and in full co operation with other public/private organizations that have their commuter rail/bus/taxi etc in service. I see some folks raising issues about buses etc not arriving on time and or indefinite stops and or crowding of buses. These are prevailing issues in Indian cities, because there is no system in place. However, when there is a system in place, this is how it would work. I am going to use a real time example of a public transport system in place here in the Bay Area also known as the Silicon Valley in Sunny California.

So the journey is from San Francisco to San Jose.

My House is near San Francisco State University.

6:40 Am - Leave home, walk 4 blocks, about 8 minute walk to the Muni Station and or take the 6:35 am bus, a block away from my house, that drops me off at the Muni station in 5 minutes.. Muni is a light rail, San Francisco Municipal Transport Agency run Light Rail/Tram service.

6:55 Am - Board the Muni and travel to the Embarcadero Center in Downtown San Francisco. Travel time 30 mins

7:40 Am - Board the BART [Bay Area Rapid Transport] Metro rail to San Francisco Airport. Bart is A high speed Metro, which travels from San Francisco to South and East Bay Area. Travel time to the airport 35 mins.

8:35 Am - Board the Downtown San Jose CALTRAIN train, from the San Francisco Airport. Caltrain is another train public train service with services San Francisco to Gilroy, while having stops in multiple places, including San Jose.

9:00 Am - Arrive in San Jose Downtown.

Take the VTA [Valley Transport Authority] bus or light rail to your next location

The purpose of this was to demonstrate, how an actual system which combines multiple agencies, both public and private, work in perfect symphony on a daily basis. As you can clearly see, that multiple public/private Transport authorities work together to create a route plan for any possible location in San Francisco - San Jose Area. Btway a car ride from San Francisco to San Jose during peak hours is 1 Hour drive time, a total of about 50 miles.

The timings of these light rails, metro and bus are done accordingly and in conjunction with each other. All these public/private agencies work out a yearly schedule. They also work out special schedules for days, when there is a sporting event, a political convention, a parade or celebration. Also, the Light Rail and the Metro while cutting and or crossing through city streets have automatic green signals for them, so that they never get stuck in any kind of traffic jams, this keeps them on time all the time. On top of all this, if there is any sort of delay and or accident and or power cut on the Metro Line for example, the chain of commands and information is passed on immediately to all the agencies, including public media broadcastings, both Radio and Local news channels.

This is exactly how a system would also work in any Indian city as well. A commuter network or Metro, Light Rail, Bus and private company buses. The company or “private luxury” bus in this situation can ferry employees from a big/central “Bus Stop” of that particular region, to the individual company couple miles away.

]]> By: K.R.Athiyaman http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155381 K.R.Athiyaman Mon, 30 Apr 2007 03:56:22 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-155381 Lack of sufficent and good buses forces people to use private vehicles and cars. if there was free competition by pvt buses and no licese raj. there would be a better system and less need for using pvt vehicles. Pls read about the chaos in US trucking industry until Reagan abolished the ICC which controlled 'permits' for trucks within US. same with airlines and airfares. Milton Freidman has written about this mess in his classic "Free to Choose" Free competition has energised BSNL and made is more efficent and less corrupt when compared to say 1985.. Lack of sufficent and good buses forces people to use private vehicles
and cars. if there was free competition by pvt buses and no licese
raj. there would be a better system and less need for using pvt vehicles. Pls read about the chaos in US trucking industry until
Reagan abolished the ICC which controlled ‘permits’ for trucks within
US. same with airlines and airfares. Milton Freidman has written
about this mess in his classic “Free to Choose”
Free competition has energised BSNL and made is more efficent and
less corrupt when compared to say 1985..

]]> By: Suresh Kumar http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-154792 Suresh Kumar Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:34:17 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/04/27/dont-make-it-affordable/#comment-154792 I think we are looking at a fix. The article is talking of two things, reduction in fare in volvo's and people switching to public transport. First of all cars are nothing exclusive to rich. Anyone with 4 to 6 thousand to spare a month owns a car today. Remember we have all the first time buyers of cars today, we still have not reached a stage where the major business cars do are from upgrades or second cars in house. So the logic of anything to reduce the cars on roads make no meaning. That will not happen. Any substitute to that will not help either. We need more roads, flyovers, parking slots. We need infrastructure, more cars is a reality. Quality of public transport for those who cannot afford cars should improve. So Volvos are that upgrade. In fact why not put AC in all public transport busses or make all public transport busses AC enabled. For those who dont want to ride on busses, for all reasons go buy cars. but the idea given in this article is narrow minded thinking. It is thinking for a group of people. It does no help to address the issue. I think we are looking at a fix. The article is talking of two things, reduction in fare in volvo’s and people switching to public transport. First of all cars are nothing exclusive to rich. Anyone with 4 to 6 thousand to spare a month owns a car today. Remember we have all the first time buyers of cars today, we still have not reached a stage where the major business cars do are from upgrades or second cars in house. So the logic of anything to reduce the cars on roads make no meaning. That will not happen. Any substitute to that will not help either. We need more roads, flyovers, parking slots. We need infrastructure, more cars is a reality.

Quality of public transport for those who cannot afford cars should improve. So Volvos are that upgrade. In fact why not put AC in all public transport busses or make all public transport busses AC enabled. For those who dont want to ride on busses, for all reasons go buy cars. but the idea given in this article is narrow minded thinking. It is thinking for a group of people. It does no help to address the issue.

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