Comments on: The Soldier And The Corporate http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/ Issues & insights Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:33:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Pragmatic Euphony » Blog Archive » The soldier And the corporate http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/comment-page-1/#comment-263863 Pragmatic Euphony » Blog Archive » The soldier And the corporate Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:01:11 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/#comment-263863 [...] is an old post that was originally posted at the Indian Economy Blog in July 2007. The non-availability of any fresh inputs on the subject does not affect the topicality of the [...] [...] is an old post that was originally posted at the Indian Economy Blog in July 2007. The non-availability of any fresh inputs on the subject does not affect the topicality of the [...]

]]> By: Dinesh http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/comment-page-1/#comment-263674 Dinesh Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:55:47 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/#comment-263674 Its not only the less salary for which faujis are putting up their papers to seek a career in corporate world. The value system of age old Army is going downhill.Lets accept it that change in civvy street scenario in terms of economic growth has very strongly effected Army. I am not recieving my revised pay for getting promoted to 'LtCol' 10 months before because gazette notification is not published... can yu beat it..? Army needs to revise its own adm system before blaming govt of india for ignoring it. Its not only the less salary for which faujis are putting up their papers to seek a career in corporate world. The value system of age old Army is going downhill.Lets accept it that change in civvy street scenario in terms of economic growth has very strongly effected Army.
I am not recieving my revised pay for getting promoted to ‘LtCol’ 10 months before because gazette notification is not published…
can yu beat it..? Army needs to revise its own adm system before blaming govt of india for ignoring it.

]]> By: sumesh http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/comment-page-1/#comment-263292 sumesh Tue, 25 Dec 2007 08:31:47 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/#comment-263292 hello all, it has been enlightening to go through all the debates and counter debates . Certain facts brought out are cent percent true. With 7 years in the army , i feel that enough is enough , there is no money and the work expected out of us is out of the world . Though i was a short service officer yet i thought may be in future things would improve , but alas it hasnt . Now i yearn to quit the army , not because of the salaries outside but for a lot of other reasons . I dont know my worth outside , but hopefully in the days to come , i will come out of fauj and crawl my way up on the corporate ladder. hello all,
it has been enlightening to go through all the debates and counter debates . Certain facts brought out are cent percent true. With 7 years in the army , i feel that enough is enough , there is no money and the work expected out of us is out of the world . Though i was a short service officer yet i thought may be in future things would improve , but alas it hasnt . Now i yearn to quit the army , not because of the salaries outside but for a lot of other reasons . I dont know my worth outside , but hopefully in the days to come , i will come out of fauj and crawl my way up on the corporate ladder.

]]> By: The Indian Economy Blog » An Unappealing Military Career http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/comment-page-1/#comment-233919 The Indian Economy Blog » An Unappealing Military Career Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:20:56 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/#comment-233919 [...] Notwithstanding this tacit admission, Pragmatic has earlier explored the chasm between the aspirations of a soldier and offerings of the corporate world. Many a serving uniformed men and women (and their well-wishers) might be pinning their hopes on the Sixth Pay Commission. If this latest news report is anything to go by, they might be in for a big disappointment. For over four million government employees, including military personnel, the Sixth Pay Commission may not usher in a dramatic new era where salaries are more in tune with skyrocketing wages in the private sector. [...] [...] Notwithstanding this tacit admission, Pragmatic has earlier explored the chasm between the aspirations of a soldier and offerings of the corporate world. Many a serving uniformed men and women (and their well-wishers) might be pinning their hopes on the Sixth Pay Commission. If this latest news report is anything to go by, they might be in for a big disappointment. For over four million government employees, including military personnel, the Sixth Pay Commission may not usher in a dramatic new era where salaries are more in tune with skyrocketing wages in the private sector. [...]

]]> By: Pragmatic http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/comment-page-1/#comment-229551 Pragmatic Tue, 09 Oct 2007 08:31:14 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/#comment-229551 Sunil, Thanks for dropping by and the comments. I agree that this kind of frank talk is actually needed to drive the truth home. Some facts may be unpalatable, but they stand as they are. Sunil,

Thanks for dropping by and the comments. I agree that this kind of frank talk is actually needed to drive the truth home. Some facts may be unpalatable, but they stand as they are.

]]> By: Sunil http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/comment-page-1/#comment-229145 Sunil Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:16:44 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/#comment-229145 Hello folks , great ideas here. Thanks to the contributors . I am an ex army officer and found this forum to be a great one .Apologies for finding it so late. Firstly let me tell you of another avenue ( other than the three, someone mentioned in the forum ) by which a defence officer leaves the force ) between 10 and 20 years without any support system from the forces ( no pension, privileges etc ) .The high risk takers or the most disgusted ones , your take :-) . I am one of them. A long long time back , I read an article which said ,out of Fortune 500 , about 173 had CEOs with a defence background ( cant remember the source though ) and an internship with an MNC in a foreign country changed my thinking . But the journey has been tough so far , even with a top of the line management degree, not in terms of flexibility and challenges but in terms of finding a true value job that would stretch my qualifications and enable me to work with some bright minds .And I have never seen a better team or values than in the army ….. I just thought I would share some opinions that I have ... 1. The corporates are much focused and do not run on charity . They have no reason to hire any 'fauji' unless the fauji can give them the kind of returns they are looking at . So if you are 28/41/52 years old first think what value you will bring to them with your experience and age. 2. The CTC component that we calculate in the army is ir-revhealant , all merely depends on the value you bring to the table ( please note , once you are out of the fauji system , you are competing with Engineers, MBAs who have been in the industry, gained expertise in the function ,have lead and have performed extremely well, in realty the guys from tech services and back end guys have a better chance , u poor infantarians ... ) the first question each fauji should ask is 'why me' and how can I really show ( in my CV and performance that I can contribute better than this top B school guy with actual experience - this is not meant for those who are looking for 3-5 lakhs an year , but good for them to keep in mind ) 3. Yes , given the chance to go thorough the learning curve ( means , u are selected, trained and then put on a position etc etc ) ,the faujis will do extremely well .But again every fauji should not expect this because there is enough talent available as it is( specially if you care looking at attractive compensation packages ) . 4. Do look at the age factor when you look for jobs in MNCs or good Indian Cos ,they have their own age band for each job ,how do you guys feel when u have an ACC guys or a re... guy at your regimental centre as an officer ...... ciao for now Sunil Hello folks ,

great ideas here. Thanks to the contributors .

I am an ex army officer and found this forum to be a great one .Apologies for finding it so late.

Firstly let me tell you of another avenue ( other than the three, someone mentioned in the forum ) by which a defence officer leaves the force ) between 10 and 20 years without any support system from the forces ( no pension, privileges etc ) .The high risk takers or the most disgusted ones , your take :-) . I am one of them.

A long long time back , I read an article which said ,out of Fortune 500 , about 173 had CEOs with a defence background ( cant remember the source though ) and an internship with an MNC in a foreign country changed my thinking .

But the journey has been tough so far , even with a top of the line management degree, not in terms of flexibility and challenges but in terms of finding a true value job that would stretch my qualifications and enable me to work with some bright minds .And I have never seen a better team or values than in the army …..

I just thought I would share some opinions that I have …

1. The corporates are much focused and do not run on charity . They have no reason to hire any ‘fauji’ unless the fauji can give them the kind of returns they are looking at . So if you are 28/41/52 years old first think what value you will bring to them with your experience and age.

2. The CTC component that we calculate in the army is ir-revhealant , all merely depends on the value you bring to the table ( please note , once you are out of the fauji system , you are competing with Engineers, MBAs who have been in the industry, gained expertise in the function ,have lead and have performed extremely well, in realty the guys from tech services and back end guys have a better chance , u poor infantarians … ) the first question each fauji should ask is ‘why me’ and how can I really show ( in my CV and performance that I can contribute better than this top B school guy with actual experience – this is not meant for those who are looking for 3-5 lakhs an year , but good for them to keep in mind )

3. Yes , given the chance to go thorough the learning curve ( means , u are selected, trained and then put on a position etc etc ) ,the faujis will do extremely well .But again every fauji should not expect this because there is enough talent available as it is( specially if you care looking at attractive compensation packages ) .

4. Do look at the age factor when you look for jobs in MNCs or good Indian Cos ,they have their own age band for each job ,how do you guys feel when u have an ACC guys or a re… guy at your regimental centre as an officer ……

ciao for now Sunil

]]> By: Pragmatic http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/comment-page-1/#comment-212547 Pragmatic Sun, 09 Sep 2007 16:43:20 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/#comment-212547 Vikas, Thanks for dropping by. I can understand your pain and anguish. In an free market, each one will get what he deserves. Military, by nature, is a closed organisation. There aren't going to be any revolutions in the military; small, incremental and significant change is the pressing need of the hour. The Army (and the air force) should not forget that an exit barrier is actually an entry barrier. Just that the top leadership here is short-sighted not to see through this simple fact. It might be of some interest to you that I have written on many other issues related to the defence services on my blog http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in Vikas,

Thanks for dropping by. I can understand your pain and anguish. In an free market, each one will get what he deserves. Military, by nature, is a closed organisation. There aren’t going to be any revolutions in the military; small, incremental and significant change is the pressing need of the hour. The Army (and the air force) should not forget that an exit barrier is actually an entry barrier. Just that the top leadership here is short-sighted not to see through this simple fact.

It might be of some interest to you that I have written on many other issues related to the defence services on my blog
http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in

]]> By: Vikas http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/comment-page-1/#comment-211284 Vikas Thu, 06 Sep 2007 06:16:46 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/#comment-211284 Thx Pragmatic Euphony for initiating a sensible debate. I am in the army and have approx 7 years service. Let me clear things a bit about the 20 lakh CTC issue. How is this calculated? An average army officer with 7-10 years service has a salary of 25,000 Rs. 6 X train travel at 40% concession in AC II tier tpt allce @ 400/500 Rs pm free housing ..2/3 bedroom house club membership All this seems quite lucrative to the common guy out there. And yes it is a means to justify higher salaries from corporates. Let me tell you the truth. The salary given is grossly inadequate as is obvious. An average army officer today would anyday avoid travelling by train ..His social status inhibits him from travelling by train..I cant remember the last time I travelled by train for personal work..always took a flight at my own cost even though I could barely afford it. The housing is pathetic. The Military Engineering Services are the most corrupt organisation and the houses are 15-20 years old with no modern amenities. The are poorly maintained. There is a waiting period in most areas for a house and officers at many times stay outside in hired accommodation for which they get 50% compensation. In all, the point is that the young army officer today is disillusioned and misled. He joined the army after seeing the lucrative ad campaigns by the army showing officers play golf and polo, but has realised that he has to live a life where he must maintain high social standards and yet is severely undercompensated and cant live up to these social expectations. It is the primary reason for an increase in the number of army officers trying to leave and join the corporate sector. He may be blamed for not being patriotic but the truth is that he has to have the means of looking after his family..he deserves at least enough pay to ensure his kids can go to a good school, and his family is looked after while he serves long periods away from his family in faraway postings. So when an officer leaving the army asks for 20 lakh p.a. CTC from corporates , they must realise that they are getting a highly qualified, highly motivated guy fora bargain. He might not be earning that much , but someone with the skills of an Indian Army officer deserves more. I am sure if the 6th pay commission manages to satisfy the army officers' requirements the no. of officers leaving will reduce significantly.. and the sharp rise in corruption in defence forces over the past few years will decrease ..Army officers are extremely hardworking, highly motivated with dynamic leadership skills. They have low expectations and fully realise that the work they do cannot be measured monetarily...yet they also feel the pinch because they are working wonders for a defunct organisation run by apatheitc leaders and still being paid peanuts for their work. Thx Pragmatic Euphony for initiating a sensible debate. I am in the army and have approx 7 years service. Let me clear things a bit about the 20 lakh CTC issue. How is this calculated? An average army officer with 7-10 years service has
a salary of 25,000 Rs.
6 X train travel at 40% concession in AC II tier
tpt allce @ 400/500 Rs pm
free housing ..2/3 bedroom house
club membership
All this seems quite lucrative to the common guy out there. And yes it is a means to justify higher salaries from corporates. Let me tell you the truth. The salary given is grossly inadequate as is obvious. An average army officer today would anyday avoid travelling by train ..His social status inhibits him from travelling by train..I cant remember the last time I travelled by train for personal work..always took a flight at my own cost even though I could barely afford it. The housing is pathetic. The Military Engineering Services are the most corrupt organisation and the houses are 15-20 years old with no modern amenities. The are poorly maintained. There is a waiting period in most areas for a house and officers at many times stay outside in hired accommodation for which they get 50% compensation.
In all, the point is that the young army officer today is disillusioned and misled. He joined the army after seeing the lucrative ad campaigns by the army showing officers play golf and polo, but has realised that he has to live a life where he must maintain high social standards and yet is severely undercompensated and cant live up to these social expectations. It is the primary reason for an increase in the number of army officers trying to leave and join the corporate sector. He may be blamed for not being patriotic but the truth is that he has to have the means of looking after his family..he deserves at least enough pay to ensure his kids can go to a good school, and his family is looked after while he serves long periods away from his family in faraway postings.
So when an officer leaving the army asks for 20 lakh p.a. CTC from corporates , they must realise that they are getting a highly qualified, highly motivated guy fora bargain. He might not be earning that much , but someone with the skills of an Indian Army officer deserves more.
I am sure if the 6th pay commission manages to satisfy the army officers’ requirements the no. of officers leaving will reduce significantly.. and the sharp rise in corruption in defence forces over the past few years will decrease ..Army officers are extremely hardworking, highly motivated with dynamic leadership skills. They have low expectations and fully realise that the work they do cannot be measured monetarily…yet they also feel the pinch because they are working wonders for a defunct organisation run by apatheitc leaders and still being paid peanuts for their work.

]]> By: Nitin http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/comment-page-1/#comment-205677 Nitin Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:39:00 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/#comment-205677 Nikhil, That's throwing away the baby with the bathwater. It is nobody's argument that the army is perfect: it has orgsanisations problems of its own, and black sheep in its flock. But it doesn't affect the argument. Nikhil,

That’s throwing away the baby with the bathwater. It is nobody’s argument that the army is perfect: it has orgsanisations problems of its own, and black sheep in its flock. But it doesn’t affect the argument.

]]> By: Nikhil Nayak http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/comment-page-1/#comment-205567 Nikhil Nayak Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:10:59 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/07/11/the-soldier-and-the-corporate/#comment-205567 Nitin, before we go around advocating mandatory army experience you may want to read Pragmatic's commentary on fragging in the army (13 fraggicides in 2006). http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2007/08/14/suicides-fragging-significant-numbers/ Note: Fragging involves the murder of a commanding officer (C.O.) or a senior noncommissioned officer perceived as unpopular, harsh, or inept. Just want to throw that out there for consideration. ;) Nitin, before we go around advocating mandatory army experience you may want to read Pragmatic’s commentary on fragging in the army (13 fraggicides in 2006).

http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2007/08/14/suicides-fragging-significant-numbers/

Note: Fragging involves the murder of a commanding officer (C.O.) or a senior noncommissioned officer perceived as unpopular, harsh, or inept.

Just want to throw that out there for consideration. ;)

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