Comments on: An Unappealing Military Career http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/ Issues & insights Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:39:33 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: Prabhu http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/comment-page-1/#comment-268688 Prabhu Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:13:49 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/#comment-268688 Hi, I have applied for the Territorial Army and am due for the tests in nov 08. My friends dissuade me from joining. the news about second hand treatment to the services is also demoralizing. can someone kindly give me a honest opinion regarding joining the TA. Hi, I have applied for the Territorial Army and am due for the tests in nov 08. My friends dissuade me from joining. the news about second hand treatment to the services is also demoralizing. can someone kindly give me a honest opinion regarding joining the TA.

]]> By: kartik http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/comment-page-1/#comment-268626 kartik Tue, 09 Sep 2008 07:49:16 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/#comment-268626 after reading the last two comment i can say that the NDA chaps who could make it to GENERAL never did any thing to counter the babus and they kept denigrating the services. EVEN now if NDA GEN keep delieving 'angrezi' only then god only can help this org after reading the last two comment i can say that the NDA chaps who could make it to GENERAL never did any thing to counter the babus and they kept denigrating the services. EVEN now if NDA GEN keep delieving ‘angrezi’ only then god only can help this org

]]> By: Gautam http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/comment-page-1/#comment-268469 Gautam Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:33:47 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/#comment-268469 I am a second generation infantry officer commissioned in ‘89. I believe there exits a strong case for deep internal reforms in the IA. I recall an old anecdote of a platoon sergeant complaining to the CO about the wimpish second lieutenant who ran back to the rear trenches when the attack was to go in. However, when the CO replaced the officer with a gung-ho fellow – this time it was the rest of the platoon that ran back to the rear trenches. The tricks of leadership lie in between the two extremes. The central idea of military leadership is to place the leader at such a pedestal that all his mortal fears are overcome by his fear of loss of respect in the eyes of the led (his men). This is the bottom line – the yardstick that every tradition, idiosyncrasy and procedure should match up. However, a major change in the last 20 years, for regimental officers, is the constant widespread and continuous threat of life and limb to self and command in counter insurgency. When you factor in semi-rural/urban environments, political ambiguity and the straitjacketed terms of engagement under intense media glare, the current challenge beats even the intensely fought Afgan campaigns of yesteryear. Also, the relative quality of adversaries drastically improved, for want of a better word, since the late 80s (LTTE, LeT, HuM, NSCN-IM etc). Sadly, this largely rudderless army reacted haphazardly to this tumultuous change by making regimental service far less glamorous (for suckers?) and staff assignments far safer to both limb and prospects (for the worldly wise?). The net result is loss of pride in wearing the uniform (even literally) by officers and men alike. The cribs about pay and status, therefore, are the symptoms not the malaise. The second issue seems more insurmountable. It concerns the role of the IA in protecting the interests and runaway aspirations of its teeming billion and their resource hungry poverty alleviation programmes).If an army (armed forces) has to protect 1/6th of the world it must at least match up with the biggest bullies. The army was always the biggest corporate entity (remember the Company’s army) – it must now provide for the country. The ‘finance whiz kid national leadership’ should not only demand the bang for the buck but also decide the most suitable economies of scale at which our armed forces will deliver. I am a second generation infantry officer commissioned in ‘89. I believe there exits a strong case for deep internal reforms in the IA.
I recall an old anecdote of a platoon sergeant complaining to the CO about the wimpish second lieutenant who ran back to the rear trenches when the attack was to go in. However, when the CO replaced the officer with a gung-ho fellow – this time it was the rest of the platoon that ran back to the rear trenches. The tricks of leadership lie in between the two extremes.
The central idea of military leadership is to place the leader at such a pedestal that all his mortal fears are overcome by his fear of loss of respect in the eyes of the led (his men). This is the bottom line – the yardstick that every tradition, idiosyncrasy and procedure should match up. However, a major change in the last 20 years, for regimental officers, is the constant widespread and continuous threat of life and limb to self and command in counter insurgency. When you factor in semi-rural/urban environments, political ambiguity and the straitjacketed terms of engagement under intense media glare, the current challenge beats even the intensely fought Afgan campaigns of yesteryear. Also, the relative quality of adversaries drastically improved, for want of a better word, since the late 80s (LTTE, LeT, HuM, NSCN-IM etc).
Sadly, this largely rudderless army reacted haphazardly to this tumultuous change by making regimental service far less glamorous (for suckers?) and staff assignments far safer to both limb and prospects (for the worldly wise?). The net result is loss of pride in wearing the uniform (even literally) by officers and men alike. The cribs about pay and status, therefore, are the symptoms not the malaise.
The second issue seems more insurmountable. It concerns the role of the IA in protecting the interests and runaway aspirations of its teeming billion and their resource hungry poverty alleviation programmes).If an army (armed forces) has to protect 1/6th of the world it must at least match up with the biggest bullies. The army was always the biggest corporate entity (remember the Company’s army) – it must now provide for the country. The ‘finance whiz kid national leadership’ should not only demand the bang for the buck but also decide the most suitable economies of scale at which our armed forces will deliver.

]]> By: Gautam Jha http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/comment-page-1/#comment-268467 Gautam Jha Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:08:29 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/#comment-268467 I am a second generation infantry officer commissioned in ‘89. I believe there exits a strong case for deep internal reforms in the IA. I recall an old anecdote of a platoon sergeant complaining to the CO about the wimpish second lieutenant who ran back to the rear trenches when the attack was to go in. However, when the CO replaced the officer with a gung-ho fellow – this time it was the rest of the platoon that ran back to the rear trenches. The tricks of leadership lie in between the two extremes. The central idea of military leadership is to place the leader at such a pedestal that all his mortal fears are overcome by his fear of loss of respect in the eyes of the led (his men). This is the bottom line – the yardstick that every tradition, idiosyncrasy and procedure should match up. However, a major change in the last 20 years, for regimental officers, is the constant widespread and continuous threat of life and limb to self and command in counter insurgency. When you factor in semi-rural/urban environments, political ambiguity and the straitjacketed terms of engagement under intense media glare, the current challenge beats even the intensely fought Afgan campaigns of yesteryear. Also, the relative quality of adversaries drastically improved, for want of a better word, since the late 80s (LTTE, LeT, HuM, NSCN-IM etc). Sadly, this largely rudderless army reacted haphazardly to this tumultuous change by making regimental service far less glamorous (for suckers?) and staff assignments far safer to both limb and prospects (for the worldly wise?). The net result is loss of pride in wearing the uniform (even literally) by officers and men alike. The cribs about pay and status, therefore, are the symptoms not the malaise. The second issue seems more insurmountable. It concerns the role of the IA in protecting the interests and runaway aspirations of its teeming billion and their resource hungry poverty alleviation programmes).If an army (armed forces) has to protect 1/6th of the world it must at least match up with the biggest bullies. The army was always the biggest corporate entity (remember the Company’s army) – it must now provide for the country. The ‘finance whiz kid national leadership’ should not only demand the bang for the buck but also decide the most suitable economies of scale at which our armed forces will deliver. I am a second generation infantry officer commissioned in ‘89. I believe there exits a strong case for deep internal reforms in the IA.
I recall an old anecdote of a platoon sergeant complaining to the CO about the wimpish second lieutenant who ran back to the rear trenches when the attack was to go in. However, when the CO replaced the officer with a gung-ho fellow – this time it was the rest of the platoon that ran back to the rear trenches. The tricks of leadership lie in between the two extremes.
The central idea of military leadership is to place the leader at such a pedestal that all his mortal fears are overcome by his fear of loss of respect in the eyes of the led (his men). This is the bottom line – the yardstick that every tradition, idiosyncrasy and procedure should match up. However, a major change in the last 20 years, for regimental officers, is the constant widespread and continuous threat of life and limb to self and command in counter insurgency. When you factor in semi-rural/urban environments, political ambiguity and the straitjacketed terms of engagement under intense media glare, the current challenge beats even the intensely fought Afgan campaigns of yesteryear. Also, the relative quality of adversaries drastically improved, for want of a better word, since the late 80s (LTTE, LeT, HuM, NSCN-IM etc).
Sadly, this largely rudderless army reacted haphazardly to this tumultuous change by making regimental service far less glamorous (for suckers?) and staff assignments far safer to both limb and prospects (for the worldly wise?). The net result is loss of pride in wearing the uniform (even literally) by officers and men alike. The cribs about pay and status, therefore, are the symptoms not the malaise.
The second issue seems more insurmountable. It concerns the role of the IA in protecting the interests and runaway aspirations of its teeming billion and their resource hungry poverty alleviation programmes).If an army (armed forces) has to protect 1/6th of the world it must at least match up with the biggest bullies. The army was always the biggest corporate entity (remember the Company’s army) – it must now provide for the country. The ‘finance whiz kid national leadership’ should not only demand the bang for the buck but also decide the most suitable economies of scale at which our armed forces will deliver.

]]> By: Vinod Chandra Khare http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/comment-page-1/#comment-268191 Vinod Chandra Khare Tue, 29 Jul 2008 06:31:03 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/#comment-268191 I have glanced through the blog and am now tempted to respond. I am ex-NDA, served Indian Army for 24 years and have now been with private sector for over 24 years. Way back in 50s, when private sector employment was not significant, government employment in civil and allied services and defence were the large options for people from middle class. NDA entry was possible at youger age through UPSC and a collector was equated to a Captain in the Indian Army. Large percentage of elite females wanted to marry armed forces officers for quality of life and glamour of uniform. Armed forces were never a service paid better than civil services. Patriotism or NOT, this was a very respectablwe employment avenue. Large number of entrants came from upper salaried class, judiciary and ICS, besides some from royalty. NDA offered education and character building, as part of leadership, something which even today no other institution offers. This facility cannot be bought at any cost anywhere. This is borne out by a fact that many entreprenures sent their wards to NDA for 3 years, paid for cost of training and withdrew them after 3 years, so that the guy became a better person.The institution of Officers Mess fostered an austere style of life excelling any event in five star environment. This was a career of continuous education and development, through courses designed for perfornmance expectations at various levels. Organization has a razor sharp promotional pyramid hence every entrant does not reach pay bands of generals. Lately, armed forces officers have been denigrated by polticians, bureaucrats and the society. Service conditions are more ardous because armed forces are struggling with anti-terrorism environment, a perineal worse than war like condition, which does not seem to be ending. Frequent postings, separation from families, non-availability of accomodation, burden of maintaing dual establishment in the interest of children education are factors unparalleled in civil services. Commitment for supreme sacrifice in the terms of service, without factoring in value for this risk, has lowered preference for this career. The pay commissions are by bureaucracy, who are very envious of the quality of leadership inculcated in this cadre. Hence they decide on protocols, continuously denigrating this service. Private sector today pays more in terms of CTC (Cost ot the Company)for a peer with about 10 years service.They don't taste loss of life for the nation in service. Hence they cannot perceive this factor.It is for Defence hierarchy to impress upon the politicians and pay commissions. There is no job security in private sector. The designations on business cards are valid within the organization only. Service conditions are more suffocating because of sycophancy. This sector does not invest in personality development. They employ ex-servicemen for their availability at comparively lower CTC, lower churn and integrity. But they treat employees like a condom i.e. use and throw. There is ongrowing comparison with IAS for pay-scales. Perhaps one solution could have been assured rise in pay scale from Rs 14000/-pm to Rs 60000/- per month by way of annual increments in 30 years, rank pay of Rs 5000/- for every selection grade rank and compensation with one time compensation of 100 times emoluments at the time of death in service, besides pension. This will largely remove the disparity and reduce churn in service. For example,an absurd case could be that a Liutenant does not get promoted to any other rank but reaches a basic of Rs 60000/- in 30 years. This could possibly reduce heart burn. Other facilities like ECHS, Institutional Membership and pension shall continue to be differentiators with private sector. Being a voluntary chosen occupation, term of service should be reduced to about 15 years to earn pension. Short service officers should be given 3 chances to appear before selection board to convert to permanent commision with about 3 years loss of seniority. These are my very personal views. I have no regrets for joining NDA and maintain that I was very fortunate to have been groomed there. I attribute 70% of my employability in private sector to NDA, Staff College and College Of Military Engineering. I have glanced through the blog and am now tempted to respond. I am ex-NDA, served Indian Army for 24 years and have now been with private sector for over 24 years. Way back in 50s, when private sector employment was not significant, government employment in civil and allied services and defence were the large options for people from middle class. NDA entry was possible at youger age through UPSC and a collector was equated to a Captain in the Indian Army. Large percentage of elite females wanted to marry armed forces officers for quality of life and glamour of uniform. Armed forces were never a service paid better than civil services. Patriotism or NOT, this was a very respectablwe employment avenue. Large number of entrants came from upper salaried class, judiciary and ICS, besides some from royalty. NDA offered education and character building, as part of leadership, something which even today no other institution offers. This facility cannot be bought at any cost anywhere. This is borne out by a fact that many entreprenures sent their wards to NDA for 3 years, paid for cost of training and withdrew them after 3 years, so that the guy became a better person.The institution of Officers Mess fostered an austere style of life excelling any event in five star environment. This was a career of continuous education and development, through courses designed for perfornmance expectations at various levels. Organization has a razor sharp promotional pyramid hence every entrant does not reach pay bands of generals. Lately, armed forces officers have been denigrated by polticians, bureaucrats and the society. Service conditions are more ardous because armed forces are struggling with anti-terrorism environment, a perineal worse than war like condition, which does not seem to be ending. Frequent postings, separation from families, non-availability of accomodation, burden of maintaing dual establishment in the interest of children education are factors unparalleled in civil services. Commitment for supreme sacrifice in the terms of service, without factoring in value for this risk, has lowered preference for this career. The pay commissions are by bureaucracy, who are very envious of the quality of leadership inculcated in this cadre. Hence they decide on protocols, continuously denigrating this service. Private sector today pays more in terms of CTC (Cost ot the Company)for a peer with about 10 years service.They don’t taste loss of life for the nation in service. Hence they cannot perceive this factor.It is for Defence hierarchy to impress upon the politicians and pay commissions. There is no job security in private sector. The designations on business cards are valid within the organization only. Service conditions are more suffocating because of sycophancy. This sector does not invest in personality development. They employ ex-servicemen for their availability at comparively lower CTC, lower churn and integrity. But they treat employees like a condom i.e. use and throw. There is ongrowing comparison with IAS for pay-scales. Perhaps one solution could have been assured rise in pay scale from Rs 14000/-pm to Rs 60000/- per month by way of annual increments in 30 years, rank pay of Rs 5000/- for every selection grade rank and compensation with one time compensation of 100 times emoluments at the time of death in service, besides pension. This will largely remove the disparity and reduce churn in service. For example,an absurd case could be that a Liutenant does not get promoted to any other rank but reaches a basic of Rs 60000/- in 30 years. This could possibly reduce heart burn. Other facilities like ECHS, Institutional Membership and pension shall continue to be differentiators with private sector. Being a voluntary chosen occupation, term of service should be reduced to about 15 years to earn pension. Short service officers should be given 3 chances to appear before selection board to convert to permanent commision with about 3 years loss of seniority. These are my very personal views. I have no regrets for joining NDA and maintain that I was very fortunate to have been groomed there. I attribute 70% of my employability in private sector to NDA, Staff College and College Of Military Engineering.

]]> By: Stanley George http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/comment-page-1/#comment-266174 Stanley George Wed, 14 May 2008 13:34:30 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/#comment-266174 Koi Kuch bhi kahe .... Main to Air Force main hi jaoonga..!! Earning money is so easy nowdays yaar...but to be in camaraderie with such refined personalities, is'nt worth xchanging for money..!! N by the way .." MONEY IS'NT EVERYTHIG"... Koi Kuch bhi kahe ….
Main to Air Force main hi jaoonga..!!
Earning money is so easy nowdays yaar…but to
be in camaraderie with such refined personalities,
is’nt worth xchanging for money..!!
N by the way ..” MONEY IS’NT EVERYTHIG”…

]]> By: Lohitash http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/comment-page-1/#comment-264884 Lohitash Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:29:21 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/#comment-264884 Dear Vijay, I am an officers son, who went for the SSB about last year and got selected; I finally didnt join due to some personal reasons, however, I must point out that what you've written is perfectly incorrect. Quote: "Actually Hindi was allowed as a valid language for group discussion and interview….I come from Andhra Pradesh….no room was given for my lack of understanding this hindi/whindi sh*t. When I am not allowed to speak Telugu but another fellow from the same freaking country is allowed to get away with speaking his language, ever guess who ends up getting selected?" According to the Article 343 of the Indian Constitution (Yeah I'm doing Law now!) the State is supossed to work towards encouraging Hindi. Mahatma Gandhi was a Gujrati, but he still supported Hindi as the national language since it was the language that the majority spoke. Moreover,Abdul Zafar Khan, a pathan from NWFP, also addressed people in the rallies in Hindi. He would write in urdu the hindi words and then speak in Hindustani. Quote: "2. Discrimination: If you are a son of an officer, you KNOW it from when you can speak that you HAVE a job lined up for you. Actually, this is very bad…..unless the spawn of an officer murders somebody, ends up in jail or something, he is going to get selected at SSB." I would like to point out that in my SSB, there were six of us officers kids, out of which two didnt get selected. The reason why offciers kids get selected is because they've been living around officers all thier lives and they know what OLQ's are more than (and I'm getting presumptious here) an average civilian kid. Quote: "Where does that leave this poor, dirty, physically strong pig-eating low caste fellow from Andhra Pradesh who made it thanks to Govt help? He cannot relate to these “gora” attitudes displayed by kids of officers, He obviously has issues speaking in either english or in hindi." Dude!?!?!? This inferiority complex is perhaps what got in your way more than anything else. Quote: "If there is one place where Dalits should get a reservation…it should be the army." The Sikh LI is composed entirely of SC sikhs jawans and the Mahar regt is also reserved for the Mahars, who I believe are from lower castes. Quote: "But did they ever tell me if I flunked the psych tests, if it was my attitude with the group tests OR if the interview went very badly? NO." They dont tell you so that you dont come the next time faking what you lacked the previous time. Its simple as that. If they tell you: "Son, you were excellent through out, but four of your qualities as pointed by the Psycology test were not in accordance with our requirements...Do work on them." Then, the next time you'll come for the SSB coached to cover up where you lacked. I dont even want to get started with the whole question of Coaching Institutes...Even Pakistan is better off than us, in Pakistan these coaching institutes have been banned.(Or so my Paki officer friend told me.) Quote: "4. Race Theory: It is correct that the Indian Armed Forces do not subscribe (officially) to the martial theory of they british masters, but in practice it is something else." The race theory works, thats why its been followed since like ever. In this regard, do read books written by a Paticular Mr. Stephan Cohen, he's this expert on the Indian Army and has written many books on it. BTW, the regts are soon going pure once again. Quote: "This coupled with hindi is the reason why there is such a low representation of folks from south india in the military" South Indians just dont join the Forces...that why they are under represented. I am a Marathi BTW, and my dad speaks perfect punjabi. This thing about coming under the spell of the masters thing...( "And the present day leadership that comes from these parts is still under the spell of their masters when it come to recruitment." )is what is perfect BS is made up of. Quote: "Love for English and Saheb culture" All right. Heres one thing which I have to agree with you on. However, I love this saheb culture...you must see Armd Regts and you'll know what Saheb culture is all about. However, the IAF is quite egalitarian compared to the army. Dear Vijay,

I am an officers son, who went for the SSB about last year and got selected; I finally didnt join due to some personal reasons, however, I must point out that what you’ve written is perfectly incorrect.

Quote:

“Actually Hindi was allowed as a valid language for group discussion and interview….I come from Andhra Pradesh….no room was given for my lack of understanding this hindi/whindi sh*t. When I am not allowed to speak Telugu but another fellow from the same freaking country is allowed to get away with speaking his language, ever guess who ends up getting selected?”

According to the Article 343 of the Indian Constitution (Yeah I’m doing Law now!) the State is supossed to work towards encouraging Hindi. Mahatma Gandhi was a Gujrati, but he still supported Hindi as the national language since it was the language that the majority spoke. Moreover,Abdul Zafar Khan, a pathan from NWFP, also addressed people in the rallies in Hindi. He would write in urdu the hindi words and then speak in Hindustani.

Quote:
“2. Discrimination: If you are a son of an officer, you KNOW it from when you can speak that you HAVE a job lined up for you. Actually, this is very bad…..unless the spawn of an officer murders somebody, ends up in jail or something, he is going to get selected at SSB.”

I would like to point out that in my SSB, there were six of us officers kids, out of which two didnt get selected. The reason why offciers kids get selected is because they’ve been living around officers all thier lives and they know what OLQ’s are more than (and I’m getting presumptious here) an average civilian kid.

Quote:
“Where does that leave this poor, dirty, physically strong pig-eating low caste fellow from Andhra Pradesh who made it thanks to Govt help? He cannot relate to these “gora” attitudes displayed by kids of officers, He obviously has issues speaking in either english or in hindi.”

Dude!?!?!?

This inferiority complex is perhaps what got in your way more than anything else.

Quote:
“If there is one place where Dalits should get a reservation…it should be the army.”

The Sikh LI is composed entirely of SC sikhs jawans and the Mahar regt is also reserved for the Mahars, who I believe are from lower castes.

Quote:
“But did they ever tell me if I flunked the psych tests, if it was my attitude with the group tests OR if the interview went very badly? NO.”

They dont tell you so that you dont come the next time faking what you lacked the previous time. Its simple as that. If they tell you: “Son, you were excellent through out, but four of your qualities as pointed by the Psycology test were not in accordance with our requirements…Do work on them.” Then, the next time you’ll come for the SSB coached to cover up where you lacked.

I dont even want to get started with the whole question of Coaching Institutes…Even Pakistan is better off than us, in Pakistan these coaching institutes have been banned.(Or so my Paki officer friend told me.)

Quote:
“4. Race Theory: It is correct that the Indian Armed Forces do not subscribe (officially) to the martial theory of they british masters, but in practice it is something else.”

The race theory works, thats why its been followed since like ever. In this regard, do read books written by a Paticular Mr. Stephan Cohen, he’s this expert on the Indian Army and has written many books on it.
BTW, the regts are soon going pure once again.

Quote:
“This coupled with hindi is the reason why there is such a low representation of folks from south india in the military”

South Indians just dont join the Forces…that why they are under represented. I am a Marathi BTW, and my dad speaks perfect punjabi. This thing about coming under the spell of the masters thing…( “And the present day leadership that comes from these parts is still under the spell of their masters when it come to recruitment.” )is what is perfect BS is made up of.

Quote:
“Love for English and Saheb culture”

All right. Heres one thing which I have to agree with you on. However,
I love this saheb culture…you must see Armd Regts and you’ll know what Saheb culture is all about. However, the IAF is quite egalitarian compared to the army.

]]> By: Pragmatic Euphony » Blog Archive » Indian Army’s cries out for more http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/comment-page-1/#comment-264176 Pragmatic Euphony » Blog Archive » Indian Army’s cries out for more Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:06:05 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/#comment-264176 [...] growth prospects, regular relocation and disruption of family life. There are many reasons for an unappealing military career in India today. Focusing exclusively on the salary without tackling the other areas of concern will do no [...] [...] growth prospects, regular relocation and disruption of family life. There are many reasons for an unappealing military career in India today. Focusing exclusively on the salary without tackling the other areas of concern will do no [...]

]]> By: tunnelvision http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/comment-page-1/#comment-255438 tunnelvision Sat, 10 Nov 2007 13:13:19 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/#comment-255438 True like any other huge organization Indian army has its own strengths and weaknesses. It’s well documented that the army has not been able to attract talented young men shows by the conduct of some of the officers and men. The disregard bordering on contempt shown to people from other professions is not doing any good to the army. But the point is how the top army brass is not realizing and doing nothing about it is a serious matter. The ancient autocratic top down structure and lack of well oiled grievance redresser system speaks loudly for some real action. Number of suicides of young men and women speak a lot about it. I read with trepidation the following paragraph from the above post: “In IMA the first thing is taught is that “WHEN RAPE IS ENEVITABLE ENJOY IT” that is what all army men who are forced to stay in army due various reasons are doing it. No amount of discussions can bring the realities of army life. Mind you it is worse than your imagination.” When ever a delicate situation is discussed the people from army generally blurt out macho strong arm violent solutions. Are these sign posts reflecting face of a modern 21st century army? True like any other huge organization Indian army has its own strengths and weaknesses.
It’s well documented that the army has not been able to attract talented young men shows by the conduct of some of the officers and men.
The disregard bordering on contempt shown to people from other professions is not doing any good to the army.
But the point is how the top army brass is not realizing and doing nothing about it is a serious matter.
The ancient autocratic top down structure and lack of well oiled grievance redresser system speaks loudly for some real action.
Number of suicides of young men and women speak a lot about it.

I read with trepidation the following paragraph from the above post:

“In IMA the first thing is taught is that “WHEN RAPE IS ENEVITABLE ENJOY IT” that is what all army men who are forced to stay in army due various reasons are doing it. No amount of discussions can bring the realities of army life. Mind you it is worse than your imagination.”

When ever a delicate situation is discussed the people from army generally blurt out macho strong arm violent solutions.

Are these sign posts reflecting face of a modern 21st century army?

]]> By: kuberkr http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/comment-page-1/#comment-250901 kuberkr Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:23:35 +0000 http://indianeconomy.org/2007/10/15/an-unappealing-military-career/#comment-250901 ARMY AN OPTION FOR YOUTH? NO…….. NEVER …………… WHY? To get the answer read the lines below very carefully and seriously. In an organisation where 80 percent of officers get superceded at the service of just 16-17 years It means that 80 percect get no promotion after the age of around 38/39 years and start waiting for retirement till their age is 54 years. Not only this, once they get superceded at the Rank of Lt Col (at the age of 38/39 years) they are forced to stay in the pay scale of 15100—18700.Now in this pay scale they reach at the maximum of this pay scale at the service of just 22 years (it means at the age of 43/44 years). Now just imagine when this lot of officers interact with young boys in civil do you expect them to give a good image of army? This superceded lot which is increasing every years at the rate of approximately 500/600 will impact much more than any other advertisement campaign by army. This country is not giving army officers even equal to what any other class one job officer is getting (just forget IAS /IPS for a moment)the calculations in support of this fact is given at the end of this article. In IMA the first thing is taught is that “WHEN RAPE IS ENEVITABLE ENJOY IT” that is what all army men who are forced to stay in army due various reasons are doing it. No amount of disscussion can bring the realities of army life. Mind you it is worse than your imagination. If you want to do something for army at least put them equal to other class one job. Do not try to make Brigadier of General just give them the minimum basic pay scale which is being given to any other class one job. For example in any other class one job all officers who are directly selected and start with the pay scale of 8000 –13500. 100 percent of them achieve the pay scale of 16400—22400 at the service of 15/16 years . At least give this much to army also. At present only 20 percent ( colonel rank)go into that pay scale that too upper limit is just 19350 for them It is suggested that put all Lt Col in pay scale of 16400—22400 at the service of 15/16 years and forget about there promotions. Also let them serve till the age of 58 years. SHORTAGE OF OFFICERS IN ARMY ATLEAST PUT THEM EQUAL TO OTHER CLASS ONE JOBS THE TABLE GIVEN BELOW SHOWS THE PAY SCALE OF FEW CLASS ONE JOBS IN INDIAN GOVERNMENT IAS IPS UNIVERSITY LECTURERS ARMY THE PAY SCALE INCLUDES THE RANK PAY 8000-13500 0 YEARS 0 YEARS 0 YEARS 0 YEARS (8250-10050) 1000-15200 4 YEARS (10650-15850) 4 YEARS 4 YEARS 4YEARS (10000—11800) 12000-16500 9 YEARS(12750-16500 9 YEARS 9 YEARS 9YEARS (13125-16050) 14300-18300 13 YEARS (15100-18300) 13 YEARS DOES NOT EXIST 13 YEARS (15100-18700) 16400-20000 DOES NO EXIST 14-16 YEARS RANK–DIG (100 PERCENT OF DIRECT IPS OFFICERS REACH UPTO THIS LEVEL) 17 YEARS 100 PERCENT OF LECTURERS REACH AT THIS LEVEL 17-18 YEARS (17100-19350) (ONLY 20 PERCENT OF DIRECT COMMISIONED ARMY OFFICERS REACH AT THIS LEVEL) 18400-22400 16 YEARS (100 PERCENT OF DIRECT IAS OFFICERS REACH UPTO THIS LEVEL) —– —– ——- THE CONCLUSION 1. THE INDIAN ARMY OFFICERS ARE NOT EVEN EQUAL TO ANY OTHER CLASS ONE JOB OF INDIAN GOVERNMENT. 2. EVERY XYZ WHO JOINS ANY CLASS ONE JOB IN INDIA IS SURE SHOT TO REACH THE PAY SCALE OF 16400—22400. 3. ON JOINING INDIAN ARMY A YOUNG BOY CAN NOT EVEN HOPE TO GET THE WHAT OTHER CLASS ONE JOB OFFICERS GET. 4. ONLY 2O PERCENT CAN HOPE TO GO BEYOND THE RANK OF LT COL IN ARMY . IT MEANS ONLY 20 PERCENT OF YOUNG BOYS WHO JOIN AS AN ARMY OFFICER CAN HOPE TO GET THE PAY SCALE OF 16400—22400 OR MORE ( NOTE THE POINT HERE THAT IN EVERY OTHER CLASS ONE JOB ALL XYZ OFFICERS WHO JOIN INITIALLY GETS THIS PAY SCALE). 5. THE ABOVE POINT INDICATES THAT 80 PERCENT OF ARMY OFFICERS (WHO HAS MORE THAN 17 /18 YEARS OF SERVICE ARE REJECTED AND DEJECTED 6. NOW A REQUEST TO PAY COMMISSION ARMY OFFICERS NEVER HOPE TO GET WHAT IAS GETS. BUT KINDLY GIVE THEM WHAT OTHER CLASS ONE JOB OFFICERS ARE GETTING. THAT MEANS THE PAY SCALE OF 16400—22400. THE SOLUTION 1. THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION FOR THIS PROBLEM. JUST PUT THE LT COL IN THE PAY SCALE OF 15100—22400 INSTEAD OF 15100—18700 AND THIS WILL ENSURE THAT ARMY OFFICERS GET ATLEAST WHAT OTHER CLASS ONE JOB OFFICERS ARE GETTING ARMY AN OPTION FOR YOUTH?
NO…….. NEVER ……………
WHY?
To get the answer read the lines below very carefully and seriously.
In an organisation where 80 percent of officers get superceded at the service of just 16-17 years It means that 80 percect get no promotion after the age of around 38/39 years and start waiting for retirement till their age is 54 years. Not only this, once they get superceded at the Rank of Lt Col (at the age of 38/39 years) they are forced to stay in the pay scale of 15100—18700.Now in this pay scale they reach at the maximum of this pay scale at the service of just 22 years (it means at the age of 43/44 years).
Now just imagine when this lot of officers interact with young boys in civil do you expect them to give a good image of army? This superceded lot which is increasing every years at the rate of approximately 500/600 will impact much more than any other advertisement campaign by army.
This country is not giving army officers even equal to what any other class one job officer is getting (just forget IAS /IPS for a moment)the calculations in support of this fact is given at the end of this article.
In IMA the first thing is taught is that “WHEN RAPE IS ENEVITABLE ENJOY IT” that is what all army men who are forced to stay in army due various reasons are doing it. No amount of disscussion can bring the realities of army life. Mind you it is worse than your imagination.
If you want to do something for army at least put them equal to other class one job. Do not try to make Brigadier of General just give them the minimum basic pay scale which is being given to any other class one job.
For example in any other class one job all officers who are directly selected and start with the pay scale of 8000 –13500.
100 percent of them achieve the pay scale of 16400—22400 at the service of 15/16 years . At least give this much to army also. At present only 20 percent ( colonel rank)go into that pay scale that too upper limit is just 19350 for them
It is suggested that put all Lt Col in pay scale of 16400—22400 at the service of 15/16 years and forget about there promotions. Also let them serve till the age of 58 years.
SHORTAGE OF OFFICERS IN ARMY
ATLEAST PUT THEM EQUAL TO OTHER CLASS ONE JOBS
THE TABLE GIVEN BELOW SHOWS THE PAY SCALE OF FEW CLASS ONE JOBS IN INDIAN GOVERNMENT
IAS IPS UNIVERSITY
LECTURERS ARMY
THE PAY SCALE INCLUDES THE
RANK PAY
8000-13500 0 YEARS 0 YEARS 0 YEARS 0 YEARS (8250-10050)
1000-15200 4 YEARS (10650-15850) 4 YEARS 4 YEARS 4YEARS (10000—11800)
12000-16500 9 YEARS(12750-16500 9 YEARS 9 YEARS 9YEARS (13125-16050)
14300-18300 13 YEARS (15100-18300) 13 YEARS DOES NOT EXIST 13 YEARS (15100-18700)
16400-20000
DOES NO EXIST 14-16 YEARS
RANK–DIG
(100 PERCENT OF DIRECT IPS OFFICERS REACH UPTO THIS LEVEL) 17 YEARS
100 PERCENT OF LECTURERS REACH AT THIS LEVEL 17-18 YEARS (17100-19350)
(ONLY 20 PERCENT OF DIRECT COMMISIONED ARMY OFFICERS REACH AT THIS LEVEL)
18400-22400 16 YEARS
(100 PERCENT OF DIRECT IAS OFFICERS REACH UPTO THIS LEVEL) —– —– ——-
THE CONCLUSION
1. THE INDIAN ARMY OFFICERS ARE NOT EVEN EQUAL TO ANY OTHER CLASS ONE JOB OF INDIAN GOVERNMENT.
2. EVERY XYZ WHO JOINS ANY CLASS ONE JOB IN INDIA IS SURE SHOT TO REACH THE PAY SCALE OF
16400—22400.
3. ON JOINING INDIAN ARMY A YOUNG BOY CAN NOT EVEN HOPE TO GET THE WHAT OTHER CLASS ONE JOB OFFICERS GET.
4. ONLY 2O PERCENT CAN HOPE TO GO BEYOND THE RANK OF LT COL IN ARMY . IT MEANS ONLY 20 PERCENT OF YOUNG BOYS WHO JOIN AS AN ARMY OFFICER CAN HOPE TO GET THE PAY SCALE OF 16400—22400 OR MORE ( NOTE THE POINT HERE THAT IN EVERY OTHER CLASS ONE JOB ALL XYZ OFFICERS WHO JOIN INITIALLY GETS THIS PAY SCALE).
5. THE ABOVE POINT INDICATES THAT 80 PERCENT OF ARMY OFFICERS (WHO HAS MORE THAN 17 /18 YEARS OF SERVICE ARE REJECTED AND DEJECTED
6. NOW A REQUEST TO PAY COMMISSION
ARMY OFFICERS NEVER HOPE TO GET WHAT IAS GETS. BUT KINDLY GIVE THEM WHAT OTHER CLASS ONE JOB OFFICERS ARE GETTING. THAT MEANS THE PAY SCALE OF 16400—22400.
THE SOLUTION
1. THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION FOR THIS PROBLEM.
JUST PUT THE LT COL IN THE PAY SCALE OF 15100—22400 INSTEAD OF 15100—18700
AND THIS WILL ENSURE THAT ARMY OFFICERS GET ATLEAST WHAT OTHER CLASS ONE JOB OFFICERS ARE GETTING

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