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	<title>Comments on: A Lazy Argument</title>
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		<title>By: FDI ILLUMINATI and FALSE RECESSION &#171; Palashbiswaskl&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2009/02/05/a-lazy-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-269711</link>
		<dc:creator>FDI ILLUMINATI and FALSE RECESSION &#171; Palashbiswaskl&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/?p=732#comment-269711</guid>
		<description>[...] The Indian Economy Blog » A Lazy Argument [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Indian Economy Blog » A Lazy Argument [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vinay</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2009/02/05/a-lazy-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-269708</link>
		<dc:creator>Vinay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 08:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I Think Still The Indian government is not much mature in siphoning the funds or you can say a proper allocation of the funds, Our indian security is Soo much vunerable in a every second week of a month we all hear a newz of some blast or some terrorists activities, still we know who the perpretors are, where they reside, But not able to do any thing, becoz in the whole world we are reknown as an &quot;pacifier&quot; ,this is the Other part of the story . Now On the technical part what we have to do.
           I think The allocation of the defence budget should not be depend on the  Nu mber of Threat wat we have recieved In  That particular year, we have to provide them  Proper  and advanced ammunities, so that no threat would be able to convert in to the Real accident. a proper allocation should be there Through proper Policies and the allocation should not be ependent on the GDP nor dependent on any threat....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I Think Still The Indian government is not much mature in siphoning the funds or you can say a proper allocation of the funds, Our indian security is Soo much vunerable in a every second week of a month we all hear a newz of some blast or some terrorists activities, still we know who the perpretors are, where they reside, But not able to do any thing, becoz in the whole world we are reknown as an &#8220;pacifier&#8221; ,this is the Other part of the story . Now On the technical part what we have to do.<br />
           I think The allocation of the defence budget should not be depend on the  Nu mber of Threat wat we have recieved In  That particular year, we have to provide them  Proper  and advanced ammunities, so that no threat would be able to convert in to the Real accident. a proper allocation should be there Through proper Policies and the allocation should not be ependent on the GDP nor dependent on any threat&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ramanuj Lal</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2009/02/05/a-lazy-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-269707</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramanuj Lal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/?p=732#comment-269707</guid>
		<description>Of course, setting a minimum expenditure rate as a percentage of GDP is not a good idea. But I think that it makes sense to talk about military expenditure as a percentage of GDP - as a matter of a directive or standard.

1. The simplest argument is that a nation&#039;s GDP doesn&#039;t just reflect its internal wealth but also its strategic importance in the world and its neighborhood. As economic wealth increases, a nation must spend proportionally on its military strength to support and protect its prosperity. Not necessarily as an imperialist bastard, but as a matter of minimum deterrent. Failure to do so poses a serious risk to national security and trade - FDI investment is especially sensitive to such risks, and an increase in sovereign risk will increase the cost of borrowing for local firms in international markets. Look at India, it desperately needs to expand into blue seas to protect the trade routes between ASEAN and the Middle-east and in case it fails to do so China definitely would (in fact it has already offered Somalia a Navy help) - do we want Chinese Navy in the Indian Ocean? A country like Sri Lanka can ignore that because it doesn&#039;t have the resources. But India due to its GDP is in a league where it can&#039;t -  it simply has to keep up with the other guys in its GDP league, especially if they are in its neighborhood. That is what every nation in history has done and must do  if it wants to survive. What I am trying to say over here is that the needs of the nation are often linked to its GDP.

2. Economy always moves in cycles, the current recession no matter however severe it becomes is nothing supernatural. Every country will reduce its defense expenditure during recession and I bet they would do it proportional to how rich they are or in other words - their GDP. In fact for growing nations like India it makes even more sense to go in sync with GDP, because less dollar value expense during recession should be compensated by higher dollar value expenditure during boom.

3. Civilians aren&#039;t masters and neither are the armed forces slaves. I have been in NCC for an year and I can say that our forces are heavily underpaid compared to global forces. But I won&#039;t not argue over it. I would only say that military pay should be in tandem with average working earning standard of the country - and the GDP reflects that. Keeping military budget at a certain ratio with GDP would mean that our soldiers are receiving salaries proportionate to national earning, which is the least they and their families deserve.
All laws are made in the legislature and such a measure, even if it is binding (which is certainly not what I am proposing), can be changed by the legislature.

4. All things are right or wrong in retrospect. If Nehru believed in Panchsheel, modern military strategists in India have the opinion (which was recently submitted to GoI) that for the next 20 years China would be so busy expanding its economy that a military conflict with India is out of question for it. That is true. But it is needless to say that China follows an active containment strategy for India - both on the political and military fronts. China is known to have posts in Myanmar from where our military base in Andamans are observed 24x7, it has supplied Pakistan nuclear know-how, its relationship with Nepal is rather sweet under the Maoist regime (as I gathered from the newspapers in my recent visit to Kathmandu). The SAARC summit in Dhaka saw the emergence of a new pro-China front comprising Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh. In the future China will think of monetary aid to India&#039;s poor neighbors to further its strategic interests and such strategy has been successfully tried by it in South America where even US is feeling cornered by the dragon.
But the biggest threat is that China is actively planning diversion of Brahmaputra&#039;s (Yarlung Tsangpo in Tibet) waters. Although China has denied such reports, India has to maintain a minimum credible military deterrent to thwart off such threats from China. China has kept its defense budget consistently proportional to its GDP. 
I wonder with a 2.1% of GDP military budget to 4.5% of GDP budget of over twice the GDP how far behind India will be after 20 years. Let us not repeat the mistake of Nehru - wise men make mistakes, only fools repeat them.

5. How many agencies in India have successfully spent allocated money? I bet the armed forces have been one of the most efficient at it! Let us not play blame game. If tomorrow there is a war are we going to tell our military - &quot;Dudes its your fault - you couldn&#039;t spent the allocated money&quot; !! I guess not - why? Probably because they will be dead !
If a critical agency is not able to spend allocated budget it means that we have to increase its internal efficiency, not cut back and laugh!

6. I guess the strategic importance of India, China and Pakistan are exactly in the order of their GDP so I don&#039;t see the point over here.

7. Guns vs Butter - I guess this article was written before blasts in Bangalore, Ahmedabad and Mumbai. Athens was a great civilization-  built on the foundations of Art, Craft, Philosophy and Literature. It looked down upon Sparta, its neighbor, with contempt for its military way of life. Its own army was a hired one (probably like India has hired military hardware). Too bad, had it not been for the military might of the Spartans the Battle of Plataea would have been lost to the Persians. The only way to create peace and prosperity is to guarantee them.

History has shown that India defense planning has been weak - from the Persians to the English to the Chinese we have failed at every frontier. Even today the general awareness among the masses about military realities is non-existent even among the 50% educated masses - forget the other half. In a democratic country political will is derived from public awareness. In a nation where even the national parliament is not completely educated perhaps its not that bad an idea to maintain a sanctum sanctorum of military budget.

It is better to have a lazy argument than to have no argument at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, setting a minimum expenditure rate as a percentage of GDP is not a good idea. But I think that it makes sense to talk about military expenditure as a percentage of GDP &#8211; as a matter of a directive or standard.</p>
<p>1. The simplest argument is that a nation&#8217;s GDP doesn&#8217;t just reflect its internal wealth but also its strategic importance in the world and its neighborhood. As economic wealth increases, a nation must spend proportionally on its military strength to support and protect its prosperity. Not necessarily as an imperialist bastard, but as a matter of minimum deterrent. Failure to do so poses a serious risk to national security and trade &#8211; FDI investment is especially sensitive to such risks, and an increase in sovereign risk will increase the cost of borrowing for local firms in international markets. Look at India, it desperately needs to expand into blue seas to protect the trade routes between ASEAN and the Middle-east and in case it fails to do so China definitely would (in fact it has already offered Somalia a Navy help) &#8211; do we want Chinese Navy in the Indian Ocean? A country like Sri Lanka can ignore that because it doesn&#8217;t have the resources. But India due to its GDP is in a league where it can&#8217;t &#8211;  it simply has to keep up with the other guys in its GDP league, especially if they are in its neighborhood. That is what every nation in history has done and must do  if it wants to survive. What I am trying to say over here is that the needs of the nation are often linked to its GDP.</p>
<p>2. Economy always moves in cycles, the current recession no matter however severe it becomes is nothing supernatural. Every country will reduce its defense expenditure during recession and I bet they would do it proportional to how rich they are or in other words &#8211; their GDP. In fact for growing nations like India it makes even more sense to go in sync with GDP, because less dollar value expense during recession should be compensated by higher dollar value expenditure during boom.</p>
<p>3. Civilians aren&#8217;t masters and neither are the armed forces slaves. I have been in NCC for an year and I can say that our forces are heavily underpaid compared to global forces. But I won&#8217;t not argue over it. I would only say that military pay should be in tandem with average working earning standard of the country &#8211; and the GDP reflects that. Keeping military budget at a certain ratio with GDP would mean that our soldiers are receiving salaries proportionate to national earning, which is the least they and their families deserve.<br />
All laws are made in the legislature and such a measure, even if it is binding (which is certainly not what I am proposing), can be changed by the legislature.</p>
<p>4. All things are right or wrong in retrospect. If Nehru believed in Panchsheel, modern military strategists in India have the opinion (which was recently submitted to GoI) that for the next 20 years China would be so busy expanding its economy that a military conflict with India is out of question for it. That is true. But it is needless to say that China follows an active containment strategy for India &#8211; both on the political and military fronts. China is known to have posts in Myanmar from where our military base in Andamans are observed 24&#215;7, it has supplied Pakistan nuclear know-how, its relationship with Nepal is rather sweet under the Maoist regime (as I gathered from the newspapers in my recent visit to Kathmandu). The SAARC summit in Dhaka saw the emergence of a new pro-China front comprising Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh. In the future China will think of monetary aid to India&#8217;s poor neighbors to further its strategic interests and such strategy has been successfully tried by it in South America where even US is feeling cornered by the dragon.<br />
But the biggest threat is that China is actively planning diversion of Brahmaputra&#8217;s (Yarlung Tsangpo in Tibet) waters. Although China has denied such reports, India has to maintain a minimum credible military deterrent to thwart off such threats from China. China has kept its defense budget consistently proportional to its GDP.<br />
I wonder with a 2.1% of GDP military budget to 4.5% of GDP budget of over twice the GDP how far behind India will be after 20 years. Let us not repeat the mistake of Nehru &#8211; wise men make mistakes, only fools repeat them.</p>
<p>5. How many agencies in India have successfully spent allocated money? I bet the armed forces have been one of the most efficient at it! Let us not play blame game. If tomorrow there is a war are we going to tell our military &#8211; &#8220;Dudes its your fault &#8211; you couldn&#8217;t spent the allocated money&#8221; !! I guess not &#8211; why? Probably because they will be dead !<br />
If a critical agency is not able to spend allocated budget it means that we have to increase its internal efficiency, not cut back and laugh!</p>
<p>6. I guess the strategic importance of India, China and Pakistan are exactly in the order of their GDP so I don&#8217;t see the point over here.</p>
<p>7. Guns vs Butter &#8211; I guess this article was written before blasts in Bangalore, Ahmedabad and Mumbai. Athens was a great civilization-  built on the foundations of Art, Craft, Philosophy and Literature. It looked down upon Sparta, its neighbor, with contempt for its military way of life. Its own army was a hired one (probably like India has hired military hardware). Too bad, had it not been for the military might of the Spartans the Battle of Plataea would have been lost to the Persians. The only way to create peace and prosperity is to guarantee them.</p>
<p>History has shown that India defense planning has been weak &#8211; from the Persians to the English to the Chinese we have failed at every frontier. Even today the general awareness among the masses about military realities is non-existent even among the 50% educated masses &#8211; forget the other half. In a democratic country political will is derived from public awareness. In a nation where even the national parliament is not completely educated perhaps its not that bad an idea to maintain a sanctum sanctorum of military budget.</p>
<p>It is better to have a lazy argument than to have no argument at all.</p>
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		<title>By: nayan</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2009/02/05/a-lazy-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-269704</link>
		<dc:creator>nayan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/?p=732#comment-269704</guid>
		<description>it is obviously not the correct way of comparison i.e., in the &#039;percentage&#039; terms as the basis i.e., the GDP varies from one country to other. However I think having a totally a flexible manner of allocation as per the needs is not so good an idea. IMHO, there should a be a certain minimum &#039;amount&#039; not &#039;percent&#039; which should be varying year after year, as the costs involved are bound to rise in the due course, along with which, as rightly stated, keeping in view the &#039;threats&#039; and &#039;intelligence&#039;s statistics and estimations&#039;, the amount allocated should be adjustable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it is obviously not the correct way of comparison i.e., in the &#8216;percentage&#8217; terms as the basis i.e., the GDP varies from one country to other. However I think having a totally a flexible manner of allocation as per the needs is not so good an idea. IMHO, there should a be a certain minimum &#8216;amount&#8217; not &#8216;percent&#8217; which should be varying year after year, as the costs involved are bound to rise in the due course, along with which, as rightly stated, keeping in view the &#8216;threats&#8217; and &#8216;intelligence&#8217;s statistics and estimations&#8217;, the amount allocated should be adjustable.</p>
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		<title>By: Agi Makil</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2009/02/05/a-lazy-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-269668</link>
		<dc:creator>Agi Makil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 18:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/?p=732#comment-269668</guid>
		<description>I think it is not a good idea to focus that much on the defence budget as long as investments into education are less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is not a good idea to focus that much on the defence budget as long as investments into education are less.</p>
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		<title>By: Pragmatic Euphony &#187; A lazy argument</title>
		<link>http://indianeconomy.org/2009/02/05/a-lazy-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-269667</link>
		<dc:creator>Pragmatic Euphony &#187; A lazy argument</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 03:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indianeconomy.org/?p=732#comment-269667</guid>
		<description>[...] at the Indian Economy Blog   05 Feb 2009 &#124; Concerning India, Military, Trade &amp; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at the Indian Economy Blog   05 Feb 2009 | Concerning India, Military, Trade &amp; [...]</p>
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